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Re: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Understanding the GodHead. [Re: Rick H] #197638
05/06/24 10:28 AM
05/06/24 10:28 AM
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kland  Offline
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Do you think Jesus in the context was referring to His second coming?
And how does that fit in with the previous statements bolded?

Re: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Understanding the GodHead. [Re: Rick H] #197646
05/07/24 06:00 AM
05/07/24 06:00 AM
dedication  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Kland
Originally Posted by Dedication
15 (Jesus said) Everything that the Father has is mine; that is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what is mine and will tell it to you.
16 In a little while you will see me no longer; again after a little while, you will see me.

Just as the disciples saw the Father, (through Jesus) as they walked with Jesus. (see John 14:7-9)
So we see Jesus, through the Holy Spirit as He leads and impresses our minds with truths that Jesus taught. Lifting our minds and worship to Jesus.

And yes, after a little while we will see Jesus face to face, coming in the clouds of glory, to take us to the Father's house.
Do you think Jesus in the context was referring to His second coming?
And how does that fit in with the previous statements bolded?

In the ultimate sense yes, we will literally, in person, be with God.
But in the immediate sense the Holy Spirit, having the fullness of the Godhead, brings Christ and the Father to us spiritually.

In the immediate sense both the Father and Christ are with us in the person of the Holy Spirit.
Just as the Father was with the disciples in the person of Jesus, there in the upper room.

Remember the previous verse --
Philip asks Jesus to show them the Father.

Why did Jesus answer him saying "YOU HAVE SEEN THE FATHER" "he that has seen me has seen the Father; and how say you, Show us the Father?"

Now the "oneness movement" (a Pentecostal group) claim that passage proves that God the Father and the Son are one and the same person, they say there is only one Being who changes into different phases. Father, Son, and Spirit -- are supposedly all just phases of the one being. But I believe the Godhead is three living, eternal persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Who are distinct personalities, yet have a oneness we don't even begin to comprehend in which they know each others thoughts, feel each others feelings, each having all the attributes of the full Godhead within themselves, yet in perfect unity of oneness. Thus where one is present, all three are present through that one.

Example: God the Father wasn't crucified, He wasn't physically on that cross, yet, 2 Cor. 5:19 "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself." In their Oneness connection He was on the cross with Christ.

Re: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Understanding the GodHead. [Re: Rick H] #197647
05/08/24 03:42 PM
05/08/24 03:42 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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Quote
Example: God the Father wasn't crucified, He wasn't physically on that cross, yet, 2 Cor. 5:19 "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself." In their Oneness connection He was on the cross with Christ.

Never thought of it like that, but I can see it and believe it.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Understanding the GodHead. [Re: dedication] #197651
05/17/24 04:41 PM
05/17/24 04:41 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted by dedication

In the ultimate sense yes, we will literally, in person, be with God.
But in the immediate sense the Holy Spirit, having the fullness of the Godhead, brings Christ and the Father to us spiritually.

So why do the verses in question speak of Christ and the Father coming and making their home in us if they weren't? Why didn't Jesus just talk about the Spirit? Rather than basically leave mention of Him out of the main details?

Re: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Understanding the GodHead. [Re: Rick H] #197654
05/18/24 05:32 PM
05/18/24 05:32 PM
dedication  Online Content
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"I will pray the Father," Jesus said, "and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:16, 17. The Saviour was pointing forward to the time when the Holy Spirit should come to do a mighty work as His representative. (AA 48)

The ONLY member of the Godhead that any human eyes have seen is Jesus.
"Not that any man has seen the Father, save he which is from God, he has seen the Father." John 6:46
" Ye have neither heard his (God the Father's) voice at any time, nor seen his shape. John 5:37
"Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. John 8:19.

No one has seen the Holy Spirit.
Therefore many don't think He exists. But Jesus explained that we see evidence of His works. John 3.
The world doesn't receive the Holy Spirit because they can't see Him, so they dismiss Him.
But Christ's followers know the Holy Spirit exists because they experience His indwelling presence.

Quote
It is not essential for us to be able to define just what the Holy Spirit is. Christ tells us that the Spirit is the Comforter, "the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father." It is plainly declared regarding the Holy Spirit that, in His work of guiding men into all truth, "He shall not speak of Himself." John 15:26; 16:13.


The office of the Holy Spirit is distinctly specified in the words of Christ: "When He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." John 16:8. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts of sin. If the sinner responds to the quickening influence of the Spirit, he will be brought to repentance and aroused to the importance of obeying the divine requirements. {AA 52.2}
To the repentant sinner, hungering and thirsting for righteousness, the Holy Spirit reveals the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. "He shall receive of Mine, and shall show it unto you," Christ said. "He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 16:14; 14:26. {AA 52.3}


The Holy Spirit does not speak of Himself -- He is not promoting Himself, He comes to reveal Christ.

Christ also, mentioned that He, Christ does not speak by Himself, but reveals the Father.

Thus we see the unity, yet individuality, of the three living persons of the Godhead working in perfect agreement and purpose to reveal the things of God to us struggling humans.

" The three powers of the Godhead, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are pledged to be their strength and their efficiency in their (baptized believers) new life in Christ Jesus. {AUCR, October 7, 1907 par. 9}

Re: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Understanding the GodHead. [Re: dedication] #197669
05/29/24 08:33 AM
05/29/24 08:33 AM
Rick H  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,157
Florida, USA
Originally Posted by dedication
"I will pray the Father," Jesus said, "and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:16, 17. The Saviour was pointing forward to the time when the Holy Spirit should come to do a mighty work as His representative. (AA 48)

The ONLY member of the Godhead that any human eyes have seen is Jesus.
"Not that any man has seen the Father, save he which is from God, he has seen the Father." John 6:46
" Ye have neither heard his (God the Father's) voice at any time, nor seen his shape. John 5:37
"Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. John 8:19.

No one has seen the Holy Spirit.
Therefore many don't think He exists. But Jesus explained that we see evidence of His works. John 3.
The world doesn't receive the Holy Spirit because they can't see Him, so they dismiss Him.
But Christ's followers know the Holy Spirit exists because they experience His indwelling presence.

Quote
It is not essential for us to be able to define just what the Holy Spirit is. Christ tells us that the Spirit is the Comforter, "the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father." It is plainly declared regarding the Holy Spirit that, in His work of guiding men into all truth, "He shall not speak of Himself." John 15:26; 16:13.


The office of the Holy Spirit is distinctly specified in the words of Christ: "When He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." John 16:8. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts of sin. If the sinner responds to the quickening influence of the Spirit, he will be brought to repentance and aroused to the importance of obeying the divine requirements. {AA 52.2}
To the repentant sinner, hungering and thirsting for righteousness, the Holy Spirit reveals the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. "He shall receive of Mine, and shall show it unto you," Christ said. "He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 16:14; 14:26. {AA 52.3}


The Holy Spirit does not speak of Himself -- He is not promoting Himself, He comes to reveal Christ.

Christ also, mentioned that He, Christ does not speak by Himself, but reveals the Father.

Thus we see the unity, yet individuality, of the three living persons of the Godhead working in perfect agreement and purpose to reveal the things of God to us struggling humans.

" The three powers of the Godhead, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are pledged to be their strength and their efficiency in their (baptized believers) new life in Christ Jesus. {AUCR, October 7, 1907 par. 9}

Still, its a hard thing to grasp..

Re: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Understanding the GodHead. [Re: Rick H] #197670
05/29/24 12:23 PM
05/29/24 12:23 PM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
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5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,485
Canada
Of course, it's hard to understand just what God is in the inner reality of God.
If we could grasp it we would be God. Which we definitely are not. God operates in a whole different dimension from us finite humans. We try to understand by imagining God operates in the human dimension, and impose on Him our limitations, only to realize that doesn't fit.

God has given us enough knowledge to understand important truths about His character, His purposes, His love, and that's what we need to focus on.

Quote
"Those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children forever;" but "the secret things belong unto the Lord our God." Deuteronomy 29:29. The revelation of Himself that God has given in His word is for our study. This we may seek to understand. But beyond this we are not to penetrate. The highest intellect may tax itself until it is wearied out in conjectures regarding the nature of God; but the effort will be fruitless. This problem has not been given us to solve. No human mind can comprehend God. Let not finite man attempt to interpret Him. Let none indulge in speculation regarding His nature. Here silence is eloquence. The Omniscient One is above discussion. {8T 279.1}
Even the angels were not permitted to share the counsels between the Father and the Son when the plan of salvation was laid. Those human beings who seek to intrude into the secrets of the Most High show their ignorance of spiritual and eternal things. Far better might they, while mercy's voice is still heard, humble themselves in the dust and plead with God to teach them His ways. {8T 279.2}
We are as ignorant of God as little children, but as little children we may love and obey Him. Instead of speculating in regard to His nature or His prerogatives, let us give heed to the word He has spoken: "Be still, and know that I am God." Psalm 46:10.


"Canst thou by searching find out God?
Canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection?
It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do?
Deeper than hell; what canst thou know?
The measure thereof is longer than the earth,
And broader than the sea." Job 11:7-9


Quote
Man cannot by searching find out God. Let none seek with presumptuous hand to lift the veil that conceals His glory. "Unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!" Romans 11:33. It is a proof of His mercy that there is the hiding of His power; for to lift the veil that conceals the divine presence is death. No mortal mind can penetrate the secrecy in which the Mighty One dwells and works.
Only that which He sees fit to reveal can we comprehend of Him. Reason must acknowledge an authority superior to itself. Heart and intellect must bow to the great I AM. {8T 285.2}

Christ's Revelation of God

All that man needs to know or can know of God has been revealed in the life and character of His Son. {8T 286.1}
"No man hath seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him." John 1:18. {8T 286.2}
Taking humanity upon Him, Christ came to be one with humanity and at the same time to reveal our heavenly Father to sinful human beings.
"Who, being in the form of God, counted it not a thing to be grasped to be on an equality with God, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross." Philippians 2:6-8, R. V., margin. {8T 287.3}
Here are infinite wisdom, infinite love, infinite justice, infinite mercy--"the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God." Romans 11:33.

Re: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Understanding the GodHead. [Re: dedication] #197703
06/17/24 05:34 PM
06/17/24 05:34 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,439
Midland
Originally Posted by dedication
"I will pray the Father," Jesus said, "and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:16, 17. The Saviour was pointing forward to the time when the Holy Spirit should come to do a mighty work as His representative. (AA 48)

The ONLY member of the Godhead that any human eyes have seen is Jesus.
"Not that any man has seen the Father, save he which is from God, he has seen the Father." John 6:46
" Ye have neither heard his (God the Father's) voice at any time, nor seen his shape. John 5:37
"Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. John 8:19.

Would you be suggesting that the text is suggesting a contrast between seeing and knowing?
And would you be suggesting that the text is not contrasting the world with the disciples?

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