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Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
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Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20059
06/23/03 01:09 AM
06/23/03 01:09 AM
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OP
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Active Member 2014
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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Last week I was listening to a radio program about the cards that the supermarkets use to give us discounts. They gave a link to a web page that tells about what they hope to do in the future with this technology. I find this very interesting how they can track all the things we buy, etc. While following some of the links I ran across where Walmart wants to put chips into things you would take home with you. quote:
Wal-Mart and Gillette to begin secretly monitoring products, purchasers.
Thousands of unwitting consumers will soon take tracking chips home with them
Wal-Mart will begin selling Gillette shaving products equipped with RFID tracking devices as early as next week, according to a Boston Globe article dated June 9. The RFID devices, designed to go undetected by the average shopper, will be sold at the Brockton, Massachusetts Wal-Mart store. The Brockton Wal-Mart serves a predominately low income, minority neighborhood. Why has this community been singled out for extra surveillance?
quote:
As early as this week in its Brockton store, Wal-Mart will put RFID sensors on a shelf stocked with RFID-tagged Gillette products to test the concept. Other retailers and suppliers, including Procter & Gamble Co., Home Depot Inc., and Johnson & Johnson Inc., are supporting RFID's development.
Boston Globe Online
quote:
This is the web site they gave on the radio about the supermarket cards.
CASPIAN- Consumer Against Supermarket Invasion and Numbering
quote:
This is the home page to RFID details.
Radio Frequency Identification (RFID)
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20060
06/23/03 08:58 PM
06/23/03 08:58 PM
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Isn't this a form of invasion of privacy?
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20061
06/25/03 03:37 AM
06/25/03 03:37 AM
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OP
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Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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Yes Daryl I too would think it is a form of invading our privacy. However, we do know in the last days that no one will have any privacy. I believe it just all points toward control.
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20062
06/25/03 02:09 AM
06/25/03 02:09 AM
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I would like to see some explanation as to why this technology is "an invasion of our privacy."
As far as I have seen, RFID technology is quite limited in it's applications; and it is mainly used for security and anti-theft applications.
The "read range" for a lot of the RFID applications is not usually more than 100 feet or so, depending on several factors. This short range RFID technology would be the only type of RFID application that something such as a Walmart would use.
Any longer range applications are currently only used in special applications, and with informed consent, such as in the cases of certain criminal justice needs, etc.
At any rate, I am left wondering why this would be a threat to anyone who is not doing something they should not be - that is, considering the nature, purpose, and application realities of RFID technology.
This does not seem like an "endtime subject."
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20063
06/26/03 03:07 AM
06/26/03 03:07 AM
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It would be good for tracking down a stolen item, if that is all it can do.
Any use beyond that though is a form of invasion of my own personal privacy.
And how do these things usually come about? As a security issue re theft, terrorism, etc.
And where does it go to from there? Time will tell us that too.
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20064
06/25/03 04:20 PM
06/25/03 04:20 PM
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OP
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Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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Amen Daryl...yes time will tell what technology will have to play in the endtime.
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20065
06/26/03 03:11 AM
06/26/03 03:11 AM
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OK
Fair enough folks...Lets take the example already given here. Have you researched the particular technology that Walmart will use in their proposed RFID program? Are you able to say with certainty that it is an invasion of privacy? Or, if you are trying to say that Walmart's RFID program MIGHT later lead to such an invasion of privacy; have you researched the particular techniques that Walmarts will use, and weather or not the read range, and other needed capabilities of their devices would even support the kind of privacy invasion you have referred to here?
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20066
06/27/03 03:02 AM
06/27/03 03:02 AM
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I went to the RFID link that Avalee provided and came across this interesting tidbit of information: quote:
This band is allocated for future use.
The FCC have been requested to provide a spectrum allocation of 75 MHz in the 5.85-5.925 GHz band for Intelligent Transportation Services use.
In France the TIS system is based on the proposed European pre-standard (preENV) for vehicle to roadside communications communicating with the roadside via microwave beacons operating at 5.8 GHz.
This alone sends me a red flag signal.
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20067
06/26/03 04:49 PM
06/26/03 04:49 PM
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Daryl I followed another link from the CASPIAN Consumers page: RFID Right to Know Act of 2003 This link is all about the Bill. I read where they will have to mark on the package that is has the chip in it. quote:
15 U.S.C. 1453 is amended--
(1) by inserting the following under subsection (a) paragraph (6):
'(7) A consumer commodity or package that contains or bears a radio frequency identification tag shall bear a label as provided in paragraph (9) of this subsection.
'(8) For purposes of paragraph (7) of this subsection the term "radio frequency identification" or "RFID" means technologies that use radio waves to automatically identify individual items; and the term "tag" means a microchip that is attached to an antenna and is able to transmit identification information.
This part deals with our privacy. Yeah right!!! We have to remember that these are just people and there are people who work in these places who have no problem invading our privacy if the time is right or the price is right.
quote:
(1) by inserting the following under Subchapter II:
'SUBCHAPTER III--AGGREGATION OF NONPUBLIC PERSONAL INFORMATION AND RADIO FREQUENCY TAG IDENTIFICATION INFORMATION
'§ 6831. Privacy protection for consumers
'(a) (1) A business shall not combine or link an individual's nonpublic personal information with RFID tag identification information, beyond what is required to manage inventory.
'(2) A business shall not, directly or through an affiliate, disclose to a nonaffiliated third party an individual's nonpublic personal information in association with RFID tag identification information.
'(3) A business shall not, directly or through an affiliate or nonaffiliated third party, use RFID tag identification information to identify an individual.
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20068
06/26/03 10:40 PM
06/26/03 10:40 PM
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I agree with David on this topic. This is not an invasion of privacy, even if the RFID was designed to track customers and their shopping preferences, which it is not. A customer is in a public store publicly buying something. This is not private conduct or secret personal information. It all happens in open view of many people. It really would be no different than a store employee making a mental note of what you are buying in order to better serve you the next time you come in to his store. Consider the old fashioned notion of customer service in a small town store where the clerk knows you by name when you walk in and knows what you typically buy. Such personalized treatment by a shopkeeper is usually viewed as good customer service. There seems to be far too much paranoid hysteria about this RFID technology. Here is a link to an informative article about this topic - Inventory management technology . As the article makes clear, as does the Boston Globe article, this is designed for inventory management to enable retailers to track inventory, NOT customers, so that they know easily and efficiently what they have on their shelves and in their storerooms. This means they can restock shelves efficiently and reorder in time to be able to restock those shelves. The technology is such that the extremely weak radio signal can only be detected within a few feet of the tiny chip. It is intended to replace the current bar code system which requires an employee to actively scan each bar code used to track inventory from the warehouse to the checkout counter. The chip would be imbedded in or attached to the packaging the same as similar security tags that are used currently for many products and would automatically transmit the very same information for the very same purpose as the bar code. Those tags which trigger the security scanners at the door are disabled at the counter. You perhaps have observed the clerk rubbing a package over a pad or just the counter before putting it in your bag. That is to disable the security chip. The RFID chips are simply designed to transmit more information. In order to emit a strong enough signal to be detected beyond a few feet a power source would need to be added as well has significant electronics for effective radio transmission over any significant distance. The size and expense of doing so renders such an idea impractical. If the chips are also to be used for security to detect shoplifters, as is currently the case, the chip will be disabled at the checkout counter which means it will serve no purpose beyond the store. Tom
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20069
06/28/03 03:58 AM
06/28/03 03:58 AM
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OP
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I too agree that at this point it is not an invasion of privacy. This is a wonderful use of technology to keep track of inventory, etc. Just wonderful. There will come a time when the price is more afordable and read range of these RFID or something else will make it possible for them to do anything with them. Nothing is impossable. Will I NOT buy a product if it is marked that a RFID is implanted in it? Well if I NEEDED it and it was the cheapest...YES I would buy it. But if I did not need it or if it was higher price than something else NO.
I love technology....I think it is just wonderful what inventions, especially with computers, etc., has come up with these days.
I also believe that the new technolgy could be used against us in the end. Am I scared? NOPE. My trust and faith are in God. Whatever happenes we will always be in HIS HANDS. We have nothing to FEAR. Amen. God is wonderful.
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20070
06/27/03 05:22 PM
06/27/03 05:22 PM
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Avalee, Why then did you draw our attention to this technology in the "End Time Events" forum in such a way as to evoke alarm or concern and specifically agree with Daryl on the privacy issue? In the end of time, of what significance will it be for anyone to know and track what we buy in stores as the last great spiritual battle draws to a climax? And for that matter, how will technology play a role in the great and final spiritual controversy of the ages? What exactly is your point in all this?
Given that the bar codes on products currently serve the very same purpose as what this RFID technology will serve, do you view products with bar codes in the same way when you go into a store? (I recall some of the same kind of end time hysteria over bar codes when they were first being introduced.)
Tom
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20071
06/27/03 07:15 PM
06/27/03 07:15 PM
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OP
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Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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We do not know what the end of this technology will be do we? Only God knows. There is no need to fear. Trust in God and He will save you. I have moved this topic to another area of the forum as it seems to not be in the right place. ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif) This topic is just a matter of interest in technology. We put our trust in God and there is nothing to be alarmed about. I am so very sorry if those reading this got the idea about being alarmed in some way. Even if this technolgy could be used to invade our privacy there is not reason for God's children to be alarmed is there? I pray you will feel better and not be alarmed about things coming upon the world. Remember God will take care of us if we are faithful. Amen [ June 27, 2003, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Avalee ]
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20072
07/03/03 03:49 AM
07/03/03 03:49 AM
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Posting New Member
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 38
Canada
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The notion that this is no different from a clerk noticing what you buy and your preferences so he/she can help you better next time. Makes me think of the subway shop I go to - the proprietor takes pride in knowing what her customers order and likes to tell me what I want before I order.
It only makes me order something different just for spite. Sometimes they are too pushy that way.
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20073
07/06/03 05:19 AM
07/06/03 05:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Daryl Fawcett:
I went to the RFID link that Avalee provided and came across this interesting tidbit of information:
quote:
This band is allocated for future use.
The FCC have been requested to provide a spectrum allocation of 75 MHz in the 5.85-5.925 GHz band for Intelligent Transportation Services use.
In France the TIS system is based on the proposed European pre-standard (preENV) for vehicle to roadside communications communicating with the roadside via microwave beacons operating at 5.8 GHz.
This alone sends me a red flag signal.
Daryl
Your above post appears quite incomplete. What has this got to do with RFID technology, and what is the "red flag" warning you are talking about? Can you be more specific? Why is this "an interesting tidbit?"
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20074
07/06/03 02:45 PM
07/06/03 02:45 PM
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David,
The portion that I quoted is obviously referring to RFID.
Check the site out for yourself and read it in its context.
The word "Intelligent" was what caught my attention.
Also, time will tell about how else RFID could be used, however, they of course wouldn't tell us about those type of usage.
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20075
07/06/03 10:56 PM
07/06/03 10:56 PM
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I caught a news item on this on CNN which interestingly enough presented the same concern about where this technology could lead to in the area of invasion of privacy sometime in the not too distant future.
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20076
07/07/03 12:07 AM
07/07/03 12:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Daryl Fawcett:
David,
The portion that I quoted is obviously referring to RFID.
Check the site out for yourself and read it in its context.
The word "Intelligent" was what caught my attention.
Also, time will tell about how else RFID could be used, however, they of course wouldn't tell us about those type of usage.
Thankyou Daryl
I have checked out several RFID sites, before I asked you my questions tho; and I don't really understand what the concern here is. You now say "The portion I quoted is obviously referring to RFID;" so I am wondering if you can
a) Tell us exactly which site/book, or other resource you drew that from, so that we may see the true context of your statement and post it here..
b)Why is your quote "obviously referring to RFID?" You just state that it is, but you don't prove why/how??
I have not yet seen any clear dilineation about HOW RFID technology can be used to violate our privacy, unbeknownst to us.
I think some of us are tending to jumping the gun on this one. If we really want to sound the alarm re privacy vilations; we should be telling people about the many VERY REAL ways their privacy is stolen via many other methods. They don't even need RFID technology to violate our privacy in the ways it has been expressed here that they might someday do.
Many people would be quite shocked to learn how much certain ones already know about them, through other means and technology that has been in place for years.
The case that is being made here for RFID and our privacy does not really exist.
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20077
07/07/03 12:45 AM
07/07/03 12:45 AM
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If I remember correctly, it is in the site that Avalee provided which would be the last one on the bottom of hyer opening post to this topic.
Also, if CNN is concerned, and they are not even looking at it in the same we that we would be looking at it, then we should also be concerned about the future implications of this and other technological advances.
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20078
07/07/03 06:04 AM
07/07/03 06:04 AM
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Thanks daryl Can you tell us tho exactly what CNN stated besides the general summary/statement you shared with us? Also, do we need to be concerned about something, just because CNN is? Is the news really the news? I think we are going against inspired counsel which tells us not to bring upon ourselves a time of trouble, before it actually gets here; when we try to stretch the available information re RFID technology into a mysterious, ethereal endtimes scenario. Your above post reveals your concern re Intelligent Transportation System technology, and how RFID, via the ITS technology will be used to invade our privacy. Your concern seems based on incomplete information at best. The ITS is something that has already been in use for years; and it has progressed to the point of becoming a multi-jurisdictional tool by which traffic light controls can be achieved! This has absolutely NO CONNECTION to anything that is "an invasion of privacy," or anything that could lead to it. I don't see any credible documentation of the claims re the privacy invasion you are making. I spent over half an hour searching for the info you referred me to on the sites provided in Avalee's first post, and I don't see it anywhere. Traffic light control technology, using RFID, is in use in many major US cities; such as Las Angeles; and I would challenge anyone to show us clearly how this does, or could in the future, be used as some sort of grandiose, end time invasion of our privacy??? Avalee makes the claim that "we know that in the end none of us will have any privacy;" and I would also like to ask where that is found in the Bible, or in Ellen White's writings. [ July 07, 2003, 04:42 AM: Message edited by: DavidTBattler ]
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20079
07/07/03 11:52 AM
07/07/03 11:52 AM
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What begins arouund traffic lights can eventually end up in your automobile as well as in your suitcase and also in your home.
The purpose of this thread is an awareness thread only just as is probably the purpose of the CNN TV news item.
The Bible speaks about the same type of awareness re being aware of the signs of the times, nothing more and nothing less.
If nothing further comes of this, then no sweat, however, if something further does come of this, then forewarned is forearmed.
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20080
07/07/03 05:04 PM
07/07/03 05:04 PM
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OP
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Posts: 2,019
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quote:
Originally posted by DavidTBattler:
Avalee makes the claim that "we know that in the end none of us will have any privacy;" and I would also like to ask where that is found in the Bible, or in Ellen White's writings.
David do you really think that in the end time, us as SDA's, are going to have our privacy preserved as we have it now? I am not talking about using RFID...we do not know how it will come about..but do you really believe you will be able to have your priacy in the end? I believe just plain old common sence tells us that all will be known about us.
As far as making a time of trouble..well I am sorry you think that. Talking about a technology that could be used in the end has nothing to do with time of trouble...well not for me anyway. My faith is built on a Soldid Rock and that Rock is Jesus. Amen!! I know I am not worried about any of this or anything else that will come about to take away our privacy. We only really have to worry don't we if our lives are not protected by God. We need not be afraid or make a time of trouble when we see these things happening. We need to rejoice that the time is near for our Lord to come and take us home. Amen! ![[Pray or Praying or Prayer]](graemlins/pray.gif)
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20081
07/07/03 05:22 PM
07/07/03 05:22 PM
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OP
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quote:
Originally posted by Daryl Fawcett:
The purpose of this thread is an awareness thread only just as is probably the purpose of the CNN TV news item.
Amen Daryl...I ran across this link about RFID, have you read it?
RFID tags: Big Brother in small packages
quote:
But what about a more powerful RFID reader, created by criminals or police who don't mind violating FCC regulations? Eric Blossom, a veteran radio engineer, said it would not be difficult to build a beefier transmitter and a more sensitive receiver that would make the range far greater. "I don't see any problem building a sensitive receiver," Blossom said. "It's well-known technology, particularly if it's a specialty item where you're willing to spend five times as much."
We need not be afraid but we also do not need to be like this man below.
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20082
07/08/03 01:59 AM
07/08/03 01:59 AM
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Thanks Avalee and Daryl After all this "convincing evidence," I will be sure to run right out and tell everyone on the block. Some of us are not anywhere near burying our heads in the sand. But we are asking for something that has not yet been brought forth here. And by the way - you don't need to wait for RFID to do all this dirty work you are "warning" us about. As I progress in my studies re computers; it is easy to see by several means, how none of us has any privacy left even now. For eg., just from the last post you made; I can see you made the cartoon .gif image with Roxio PhotoSuite 4 software on your home computer, and you would be absolutely shocked if you knew how much one could glean about you just from that one post. We are getting too much like some Sunday keeping Christians, all worried about credit cards, electronic chip implants, and the like. There is nothing wrong with trying to get RFID put in it's proper perspective...And additionally, no where does the SOP make our privacy an issue in the time of the end. ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif) Please provide us with evidence instead of cartoons...then we might believe you a little more. ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif)
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20084
07/09/03 12:29 AM
07/09/03 12:29 AM
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I know Avalee; I figured that out re your graphic after I said it; but I didn't have time to go back & fix it...Oh well. The fact remains tho, there is a lot even a computer "nerd" like me can find out about people, just from one post here, or an email. But really! I do not hide my head in the sand! If you don't believe me, Look Here!If anyone wants to see what that David T Battler guy looks like, this is your big chance! You are right about one thing Avalee: JESUS IS ALIVE! [ July 09, 2003, 12:01 AM: Message edited by: DavidTBattler ]
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20085
07/09/03 05:15 PM
07/09/03 05:15 PM
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OP
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Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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Hey David thanks for sharing your picture with us...that is a great picture.
I have always admired your computer work and the graphics you have used here on the internet. I think I asked you before if you made them or if they were available online somewhere.
Yes Jesus is ALIVE and taking care of us all...AMEN
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Re: Walmart To Test RFID Tracking Devices
#20086
07/11/03 03:30 AM
07/11/03 03:30 AM
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Thankyou Avalee Yes! I make everything myself now! I have been slowly buying software that helps me to do this, but it is a bit expensive. To be honest, I would rather be out climbing trees instead of sitting in front of the computer! By the way, I now have the perfect excuse to stop shaving! I see some news reports that RFID devices will soon be commonly used in men's razors/shaving products!!
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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