Correction, Stephanie. You are tired of discussions that cannot be pulled to fit the doctrines you hold. I respect your right to pull out of the discussion, however. It is no accident that God spoke to Adam so that Lucifer could hear. He wanted him to hear.

Jeff, you are arguing from hindsight. When the serpent spoke he had evidence that he had not died. Your reference to the future demise of Eve does what Stephanie did; assume that the serpent was working in cooperation with the Creator. I don't think you believe that so you should be careful of an argument that assumes the same.

It is a huge step from filling in the gaps in the biblical record to totally ignoring clear statements that are in the record.

Darius,

It’s not hindsight. I am not assuming that the serpent was working in cooperation with the Creator. Rather, I am assuming that the serpent was working in cooperation with the deceiver, Satan. Isn’t that a bit easier to believe of me than the assumption you made? It’s a much more natural thing to assume, you know.

The deceiver lied. He told Eve she would not die. The serpent did not say those words because he extrapolated it from his own experience. The serpent said it to deceive Eve. Do you think that “you will not surely die” was the truth? You did, after all, say that the serpent didn’t lie.

Also, no one ignored clear statements that are in the record. Instead you assumed that since others interpretations differed from yours that it must be for that reason.

I'm still wondering what great heresy you're trying to squash.

Jeff

Stephanie and Jeff your statements are clear and in my understanding correct. Darius who gave you "all knowledge" to be able to state that those that do not agree with YOU are WRONG??? Man chill the theological philosophical angle and look at this in the way God instructed us! Through prayer, and peace, we see the character of God NOT working with Satan, nor working to colaborate with him! To say that God spoke out loud to Adam, so that Satan could hear is just plain WHACKED ( for lack of a better word! ) Eve knew in her heart of hearts that to touch the fruit of the tree was FORBIDDDDDEN! Yes she was deceived, not forced, she used her free choice and chose against truth and against God. BUT God in His love and mercy prepared a way for us SINNERS and that is through the GIFT of His son's sacrifice!... NO Way this is a conspiracy between Satan and God!

Snowman, consider the implications of what you say beyond whether it fits your ideas. If God did not speak aloud to Adam how did the serpent know that a prohibition had been given?

The problem is that you guys are only attempting so buttress what you believe instead of studying what the text says. This is why you can't see the implications of what you are saying. How does knowing the private communication between the Creator and Adam indicate that the serpent was working with the deceiver? Please explain, Tom.

BTW, the great heresy is the belief that Adam and Eve rebelled against the Creator in the Garden. That belief gives to the enemy rights the Creator has denied. I think we should strive to be on the Creator's side.

Tom, you are still arguing from hindsight. Go back to the discussion between the serpent and Eve. The serpent had not only eaten a fruit; he had engaged in open warfare with the Creator. But he had not died. He was still alive and well. He did not even feel sick. He is still alive. From his perspective death did not follow. You are giving the impression that he understood the process of death, which would put him in cahoots with the Creator. Think this through.