As for the ninth commandment, God says "you shall not bear false witness AGAINST your neighbor." Obviously deception for the purpose of helping or saving your neighbor or even yourself is outside the range the commandment is covering. Also, the little story in I Kings 22:13ff makes it clear that God Himself uses deceitful methods when He finds it necessary.

Bob Lee

The word against is an interesting word in that commandment. Thank you for bringing it to our attention.

What does the word against mean?

Is the word against referring to the person you are telling the lie to, or is it referring to the one you are trying to protect?

[ May 11, 2002: Message edited by: Daryl Fawcett ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Boblee:
Sometimes, I believe, we read too much into God's commandments. In the first commandment, for instance, we sometimes translate "before Me" into "you shall have no other gods AT ALL" which is obviously a wrong conclusion. God simply wants us to keep our gods in the right order.
Bob Lee

---

Bob can you tell me just what you mean by "God simply wants us to keep our gods in the right order?

I understand "against your neighbor" as meaning to the detriment of anyone.

To Avalee

You might find it interesting to check out texts like Deut 10:17, Psalm 136:2, and Daniel 11:36 which specify that our God is above all other gods. Then there is that most intriguing verse in Psalm 82:6 which Jesus Himself repeated to the Pharisees of His time in John 10:34-36. It seems to say that from heaven's perspective, God's people are counted among the gods.

We make gods of many things, from recreation and sports, to food and drink, to vocations and avocations, to education and study, to family and intimate friends, and even to religion itself. Many of these are legitimate objects of adoration, but none of them should be allowed to come before our relationship with our Lord.

Bob Lee

The ancient Hebrew people understood the 9th in the same manner as you. Interesting.

Thank you for that enlightening contribution to this topic.

quote:

---

Also, the little story in I Kings 22:13ff makes it clear that God Himself uses deceitful methods when He finds it necessary.

---

Hebrews 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

2nd Thessalonians 2:
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

1 Kings 22:
18 And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would prophesy no good concerning me, but evil?
19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
1 KINGS Chapter 22

22:1 , 2 PK 207
22:2 - 17 PK 195-6
22:7 , 8 2BC 1036
22:22 , 23 1T 366; TM 409
22:29 - 37 PK 196
22:34 - 37 PK 207, 244
22:40 PK 207; 5T 191
22:41 - 46 PK 190-1
22:50 PK 212
22:51 - 53 PK 207; 5T 191

2 Chronicles 18:

17 And the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would not prophesy good unto me, but evil?
18 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left.
19 And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.
20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?
21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.
22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.

2 Chronicles Chapter 18

18:1 CS 139
18:1 - 16 PK 192-6
18:28 PK 196
18:30 - 34 PK 196, 244

We need to be careful what we say against the character of God.

So you are saying that there is a difference between God saying something intended to deceive and God commissioning one of His angels to do the same?

When the head honcho of Enron or Anderson orders the papers to be shreded, don't we go after the big guy, or just blame the poor flunky that followed those orders?

Maybe it's time to take another look at the character of God, taking as our base what God says about Himself instead of making up characteristics we think He should have. Or as I was suggesting before, maybe we should look more carefully at the character of the ten commandments and what they actually say. Paul, in I Cor 12:31 (KJV), tells us to covet the very best. How does that square up with the tenth commandment which says 'you shall not covet? And God told the Moses to place cheribim on each side of the ark. Cheribum -- aren't they living beings? So how does that square up with the second commandment which tells us not to make the "likeness of what is in heaven above?"

Bob Lee

Reference please.

I will comment on the covet aspect later.