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Sabbath activities - nonessential #33579
01/28/01 09:39 PM
01/28/01 09:39 PM
W
Wedntgp  Offline OP
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 132
?
Jesus healed the man with the withered hand on Sabbath. The hand had been that way for years. It was not an emergency nor was the Sabbath the only time Jesus could have healed him. Are we limited to only working in emergency situations on Sabbath for the good of our fellow man, or is any activity that shows love and concern for others appropriate for Sabbath. If my neighbor is ill, and his crop needs harvested, is it OK to do on Sabbath? Could I mow the ill neighbors yard on Sabbath? Could I clean their house? Take them to go grocery shopping if their car is broken down? What is the impact of Jesus' example on these questions?

Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential #33580
01/29/01 03:57 PM
01/29/01 03:57 PM
Edward F Sutton  Offline
Charter Member
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,428
Zanesville, OH 43701
If I remember correctly there was something about Christ choosing Sabbath to heal upon while in Jerusalem to make things more public and prevoke the people to study. Possibly in Desire of Ages, or Christ's Object Lessons, Or Thoughts from the Mount of Blessing, I do not remember for sure.

Regarding what is lawful or not to do regarding helping others on Sabbath, I would suggest pulling up all Sabbath Texts & passages on the computer or Strongs Exhaustive Concordance. Determine which texts refer to the weekly Sabbath & use them.

Use a translation that in your language is as close to the original languages written as you can get, because you are looking for factual accuracy to answer this question.

Hopefully that will help you.

Ask these questions:

What does the text(s) or passages say?
What is their specific expressed intent?
What is their context?
Use the same questions on the texts & passages indirectly talking about the weekly Sabbath.

Plug key words from the texts (direct & indirect) on the Sabbath into the best SOP database you have or use the White Estate's website data base.

Happy hunting & share what you find.


Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential #33581
02/03/01 03:53 PM
02/03/01 03:53 PM
W
Wedntgp  Offline OP
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 132
?
It would appear that true Sabbath keeping is a lifestyle, a way of living, not merely a list of dos and don'ts for only one day out of the week. Andreason wrote that the Sabbath should be a demonstration of the gospel in operation, which raises the Sabbath question from being merely the observance of a day to the living of a life. Perhaps this is where we fall short. Are we so preoccupied with our list of dos and don'ts for Sabbath that we've isolated it from the rest of the week. Does Sabbath keeping revolve around questions of swimming or not, biking or no biking, playing catch or throwing Frisbees, going out to eat or not, going to a store or not, and each of us can add to the list.

I find that this narrow approach to Sabbath keeping causes us to miss out on the vast experiential meaning of Sabbath and how being a Sabbath keeper relates to all of life.

Ellen White wrote "We are not merely to observe the Sabbath as a legal matter. We are to understand its spiritual bearing upon all the transactions of life."

true Sabbath keeping is a lifestyle, when we imitate our heavenly father and the values important to Him. What are those values? People, justice, peace, equality, feeding-clothing-housing the less fortunate, environment, family and relationships. Active concern about these issues and applying His values to them is true Sabbath keeping.

May God bless your celebration of Sabbath.


Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential #33582
02/03/01 08:08 PM
02/03/01 08:08 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

Wedntgp,
Why any one should ask a question regarding "dos" and "don'ts" on Sabbath or any other day! God has given the Bible to every one to be the guide for one's living.
It is up to every individual to establish one's relationship with God and do whatever one thinks deemed neccessary to please our heavenly father. I couldn't care less what others do or don't do on Sabbath, and we should not be critical about what others do/don't on Sabbath. I can not get a ticket to heaven on his coat tail.

Won


Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential #33583
02/03/01 09:16 PM
02/03/01 09:16 PM
D
DrD  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 221
USA
I would suggest that the response that indicates that each should study the Bible and establish a relationship and DO WHATEVER ONE THINKS DEEMED NECESSARY TO PLEASE OUR HEAVENLY FATHER, is walking on the same thin ice that the Children of Israel walked on when they promised to DO whatever pleased God. They failed. I believe that anyone who focuses on doing will also fail.

My worthiness to God is not based on what I DO, but it is based on my being one of His created beings. Can I DO anything that would make God stop loving me? If I cannot, then the issue is values not Doing. I appreciate what Wedntgp said, and think the point made was right on target. If my values are the same as God's values, then DOING is of no concern.


Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential #33584
02/04/01 01:47 PM
02/04/01 01:47 PM
Gerry Buck  Offline
Charter Member
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,859
Benton Harbor, Mi.
Perhaps a better question to ask is: What does God say about what He wants as a Sabbath observence?
The primary target of Jesus healing on Sabbath was to open the eyes of the Israeli elite [priests, scribes, etc.] to the hardness of their hearts and the coldness of their religion.
Jesus said He cvame to fulfill the law not to destroy it [Mt.5:17,18]
He also asked the leaders of the 'church' of His day who among you would not pull an ox out of a pit it fell into on the sabbath.
They, too, hads questioned Him about healing on the sabbath.
There are specific prohibitions about buying and selling on sabbath all through the old testament, with the punishment being death.
Anything requiring the safety of human[or animal] life is aceptable on sabbath.
I don't think a lawn would die if it weren't cut on sabbath and grocery shopping isn't a necessary thing to do either.
As to going out to a meal on sabbath, you would be disobeying the order not to buy or sell on sabbath.
Read Nehemiah 13:15-18, Nehemiah instituted a sabbath 'change' and stopped the merchants from coming into the city of Jerusalem on sabbath.
All through the word of God we find direction for our lives, and the way He wants the sabbath observed.
Our ideas may sound good to us, but, history is full of examples of those that thought the same way, the results were horrific.
There is a way that seems right to men, but, the ends thereof are death.

------------------
What is popular is not always right.
What is right is not always popular.


Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential #33585
02/04/01 05:38 PM
02/04/01 05:38 PM
W
Wedntgp  Offline OP
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 132
?
I still don't understand the resistance to doing good on the Sabbath. There is a story of a small church that had no success at attracting people from the community to its meetings. A young plumber came into town that was a member of that SDA church. He could not preach. He could not teach. He could not do well any of the traditional leadership roles. But he could repair plumbing. The community was poor. Many residents had plumbing problems that they could not pay for the repairs. On Sabbath afternoon this young plumber would load up his tools and drive around the countryside repairing the plumbing of those that could not afford it, and charged them nothing. Several months later, the church again had a series of revival meetings, and the church was filled with those people that the young man had helped and with those that had heard about his generosity to and love for people. Which was more acceptable in God's sight, the "rule keeping" non-activity of the members before his arrival, or the caring, compassionate expression of love of the Sabbath plumbing plumber. I know who I believe God would say "Well done" to.

Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential #33586
02/04/01 07:19 PM
02/04/01 07:19 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

If we do things for God for wrong reason, then it is of no use. Surely, we do not get salvation by doing good deeds. We do good deeds or keep the Sabbath according to God's principal because we are saved, and we love God.No matter how much good deed we accumulate on any day will not get us any where if the motivation is not proper. We do a lot of things for our spouses. Are we doing these to gain a favor from them or do we do these because we love our spouse? Once we have established a good solid relationship with God we do not have to worry aboout "dos" and "don'ts".
I personally do not agree with the plumber who fixed the plumbing problems on Sabbath afternoons. I feel this is a good deed to gain the favor of God, not because of Him. God demanded us not to do our own work on Sabbath whether you get paid or not is a different matter. I read some time ago, PUC students organized so that they can go to down to town on Sabbath afternoons to paint the houses free of charge. Why can't the plubmer and the PUC students do such a good deed on other days rather than God's day. God clearly said He set the Sabbath aside. Painting the house or fixing the plumbing for the poor are not considered emergency type of work in my opinion. Can we stretch the principal (Sabbath is for man, not man for the Sabbath), then how far? Healing the sick on Sabbath who has been suffering for many years, I consider, more than logical. Jesus could have said come back after sun down, but this is illogical thing to do for Jesus. Wouldn't it be better to relieve the suffering as soon as it can? If you read the 4th commandment again slowly and carefully we will get a lot more meaningful understand than what we have superficially scratched.

Won


Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential #33587
02/04/01 08:56 PM
02/04/01 08:56 PM
L
Linda Sutton  Offline
Charter Member
2500+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,794
USA
Gerry, you've said it well.

Won, you've said it well.

We can do all manner of good deeds and proclaim that we have done them in the name of God. But if those good deeds are done contrary to God's Word, His Law, then we have accomplished nothing for God. God has said that He won't be made to serve with our sins.

The Lord Jesus will not be made to serve with your sins. He claims the undivided throne of the heart, and would banish from the life every worldly, unsanctified action, whose influence would tell against the fact that you are his sons and daughters. We must remember that we are the purchase of Christ's blood. Body, soul, and spirit are his, and we are to be his agents, and not serve sin and the world, but yield to him, that we may be wholly sanctified. "Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." {YI, September 14, 1893 par. 7}

The law of God proclaimed upon Mount Sinai, "Thou shalt not commit adultery," and yet you who transgressed that law in so marked a manner were teaching others the Bible. God did not accept your labors. You ask if the Lord gave me that letter to give to you. I say He did. The holy God of Israel will not serve with your sins. That message was given of God. If you have had, since that message was given, a new sense of what constitutes sin, if you have become truly converted, a child of God in place of being a transgressor of His law, there is no one who will be more pleased than myself. I could not present your sin before you in too strong language. {TSB 163.2}


Did not the same God also pronounce on Mount Sinai the Sabbath commandment? He will no more serve with the sins of those who break the fourth commandment than He will serve with the sins of those who break the seventh.

------------------
________________________
Even so come, Lord Jesus
Linda

[This message has been edited by Linda Sutton (edited February 04, 2001).]


Re: Sabbath activities - nonessential #33588
02/05/01 01:07 AM
02/05/01 01:07 AM
C
Catherine  Offline
Charter Member
Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 881
Michigan, USA
quote:
Originally posted by Won Bae:
I personally do not agree with the plumber who fixed the plumbing problems on Sabbath afternoons. I feel this is a good deed to gain the favor of God, not because of Him.
Won

How do you know the plumber's reason for doing what he did? You are not God and you cannot see or know what is in his heart. You have no business judging this man, as God has clearly fobidden it. "Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls." Romans 14:4.

At times God has called me to do things that go against the conventional SDA way of thinking. His leading was very clear, and in no way actually violated any of God's own directions, either through the Bible or the SOP. You can be sure that I received criticism from those who think they have a right to judge others according to their own interpretation of traditional SDA teachings. But that is irrelevant. I answer to God, and I am not going to disobey him because some church members take it upon themselves to judge others.

------------------
The Lord is the strength of my life and my portion forever.


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