Daryl,

As the bracketed quote I included above about "compromise" indicates, Ed Christian is in agreement. He is not talking about compromising principles. He also devotes a chapter specifically to determining the Biblical principles of music.

And here is an EGW quote that Ed also includes in the book:

“The evil of formal worship cannot be too strongly depicted, but no words can properly set forth the deep blessedness of genuine worship. When human beings sing with the spirit and the understanding, heavenly musicians take up the strain and join in the song of thanksgiving.” (Ellen G. White, Testimonies for the Church, vol. 9, p. 143).

Tom

As I have responded on another forum to the same subject by Tom, what Ed Christian tries to propose - seen from several quotations of his statements - is vague about what kind of unity and on what basis this unity is supposed to take place. The guy characteristically is confusing and unclear in his propositions as shown in his many other writings (remember the Sabbath Pleasures?). He mentioned love, concern for another, putting others' interest before ours, etc., but doesn't define clearly what they mean - at least in the context of music and worship he purports to discuss. I cannot take anyone seriously when someone does this. I've known far too many Christian scoundrels who habitually use (rather, misuse) these noble ideas to aid their own personal agenda and benefits.

Let me illustrate some fallacious logic & unfair (prejudiced) association this guy use (whether he has intended or not) by picking apart some of his statements:

quote:

---

Ed Christian's statement:

I believe that everything in the worship service needs to be subordinate to the goal of worshiping God in unity. If the organ prelude and the special music lower the spiritual temperature by drawing people away from each other and focusing on a private experience of God, replace them with congregational hymns.

---

Why would the organ music and the special music lowers the spiritual temperature or draws people away from each other and so on is not explained. This is a purely subjective conjecture and a plain just-so story. This is but one of many series of subtly negative associations of pratices and ideas he practices throughout his discussion of this subject.

He also propositions that our goal should be "worshiping God in unity." However, the Bible is very clear in that God cares about HOW we worship (His way or our way) more than the mere appearance of unity in worshiping WHOM. Even a cursory reading of a few bible vrses (Genesis 4:3-5, Ex. 32:5-28, 1 King 12:20-33. etc.) will reveal this is the case.

quote:

---

Ed Christian's statement:

We need to surrender ourselves to the good of the whole body and sing with our hearts. I believe this is the worship God desires, rather than a worship that is decorous and reverent, but dead.

---

The last time I looked at God's Words, it said I need to surrender - unconditionally - to the Lord, not to the good of the whole body (whatever he means by that). By the way, who defines the good of the whole body? What is it in the context of singing and music?

Does this mean that the whole congregation should yield, for the good of the whole body, to the wishes of some misguided young people who want to employ the rock style music in the congregational worship? Ed simply does not define it.

Also, why does he always associate "a worship that is decorous and reverent" with "dead"? Here is another example of his employing a subtly negative association that is not warranted.

quote:

---

Ed Christian's statement:

Unity is built when God’s people develop a relationship with each other, when they truly care for each other and carry each other’s burdens, and this is Christ’s desire for them.

---

The true unity is established among the true believers when they are drawn nearer to Christ and His character and when our tendency to make provisions for self is resolutely discarded by our obdience to the dictate and power of the Holy Spirit. The true unity (that the Bible talks about) can never be built on the basis of developing a relationship among sinners. This is one of the most prevalent misunderstanding I see in the church nowadays.

Justin

The following article is soon to be published in one of the Adventist youth maganzine that I have some relationship with. Seeing the subject of unity mentioned in the context of worship styles and music, I thought the following article (written by a pastor friend in my own Conference) would provide some needed insight on this topic to forum participants. Kevin custs through the surface and goes into the heart of the matter surrounding this debate of worship among other things, and I hope it is as edifying for you all as it was for me.

--------------------------------------------

LIFESTYLE AND WORSHIP CHOICES: WHY THEY MATTER

Kevin D. Paulson


Questions of personal behavior and the manner of our worship have become hot issues in the contemporary church. Many wonder how, and if, these discussions matter to their relationship with God.

It is time to lay aside the authority of human opinion, human scholarship, and human experience, and get back into the Word.


Two Underlying Theories

The current debate over standards in the Seventh-day Adventist Church is, in large measure, handicapped by two series of misunderstandings: (1) the theory that finding God’s will for our lives is a subjective, individually unique process, with no changeless standard of right and wrong that all can know and comprehend; and (2) the theory that lifestyle and worship choices, while perhaps important, have no bearing on salvation.

Both theories contradict the Bible, and must be exposed as false before we can fully appreciate the counsel of God regarding how we should live.


Clarifying Our Authority

The first of the above theories is most serious of all, since it concerns the basic question of what our authority is. If we can’t agree on this, any further discussion of Christian beliefs or lifestyle becomes pointless. Without a standard to which ideas and actions are compared, discussions of this sort become no different from the arguments heard every day on CNN’s “Crossfire.” They might be amusing, entertaining, and occasionally informative, but they settle nothing.

The Bible not only maintains that an absolute standard of right and wrong exists; it also maintains that this standard is knowable by finite humans, and that all are accountable to God for how they fulfill that standard (James 2:10-12). Without this standard, God’s Ten Commandment law, we can’t possibly know we’re sinners (Rom. 3:20; I John 3:4), and thus we can’t know if in fact we need a Saviour (Gal. 3:24).

The Bible declares of itself: “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” (II Tim. 3:16). The Bible is not the product of human opinion and speculation, but of the Holy Spirit speaking through men of God (II Peter 1:19-21). And what the Holy Spirit inspires is to be understood by comparison with itself (I Cor. 2:12-14)
--precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little and there a little (Isa. 28:9-10). Thus does God’s Word develop a consistent portrait of the divine will, by which all ideas and actions must be measured (Isa. 8:20; Acts 17:11).

While Seventh-day Adventists hold the Bible to be the test of all doctrine, experience, and lifestyle, they also recognize the Biblical truth that the prophetic gift didn’t stop with Revelation 22. Scripture maintains that this gift would function until the return of Christ (I Cor. 1:6-7), and that God’s last church would be characterized by a special bestowal of this gift (Rev. 12:17; 19:10; 22:9). Seventh-day Adventists maintain that this prophetic voice was placed in our church through the ministry and writings of Ellen G. White.

Despite the insistent claims of critics, many of whom shout their dissent from classroom podiums and Internet chat rooms, Ellen White’s teachings harmonize fully with those of the Bible. While not every explicit counsel she gives is repeated in Scripture, every principle on which she elaborates finds its basis in Scripture. The Bible, for example, says nothing about tobacco or recreational drugs; Ellen White, by contrast, speaks against both. But the Bible does speak of our bodies being the temple of the Holy Ghost in which God must be glorified (I Cor. 6:19-20). The Bible says nothing about fictitious reading, as does Ellen White. But the Bible does contain the command, “Whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, if there be any praise, think on these things” (Phil. 4:8).

When we ponder this passage from Philippians especially, the impact on one issue in particular is nothing short of awesome. If the principle found in this verse were followed, very little of modern entertainment—movies, soap operas, novels, etc—would be deemed acceptable for the Christian.

One tragedy in modern Adventism has been the tendency of some to blame Ellen White for every extreme idea or practice that occasionally comes into the church. Even today there are some who assume that according to Ellen White, church members should dress like the Amish, eat no refined foods ever, never swim in mixed groups, avoid dating, and reserve the first kiss for the marriage altar. But the fact is that no such counsels exist in the writings of Ellen White. They may represent the opinions of sincere people, but that is all. Only the written counsel of God can be our authority in settling spiritual issues.


But is it a salvation issue?

Nearly always, in a discussion of standards, someone brings up this question. When all is said and done, people want to know, do my choices in such areas make a difference to my eternal destiny?

Much confusion exists in contemporary Adventism over the doctrine of salvation. Many mistakenly believe that when the Bible says we aren’t saved by works (Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16; Eph. 2:8-9), that this includes even the Holy Spirit’s work in Christian lives. It isn’t hard to see the result of such thinking. The Spirit’s transforming power in the lives of converted Christians is what true obedience is all about. And if one is supposedly saved apart from this transformation and obedience, it logically follows that the Christian’s lifestyle choices—whatever they may be—don’t affect salvation.

But the salvation by works condemned in Scripture has nothing to do with the empowering work of the Holy Spirit. Rather, the works-righteousness condemned in Scripture has to do with surface religion, ritual piety, the sort of hypocrisy Isaiah and Jesus denounced in their day (Isa. 1:10-17; Matt. 23). Paul likewise maintains, in Romans 2:17-23, that the Jews who thought they were justified by the law had made boastful deeds of professed piety a substitute for genuine, heart-based obedience. The Bible is clear that such hypocritical works have no value whatsoever with God.

But the Bible is very clear that while we are not saved by mere surface activity, we are in fact saved by the Spirit’s inward work of renewal and sanctification (II Thess. 2:13; Titus 3:5). Both Jesus and Paul declare that obedience to God’s commandments is the condition for our receiving eternal life (Matt. 19:17; Luke 10:25-28; Rom. 2:6-10; 8:13; Heb. 5:9). But both also make it plain that only through heaven’s power is such obedience possible in our lives (Matt. 19:26; John 15:5; Phil. 2:12-13; 4:13). In Paul’s words: “For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die; but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live” (Rom. 8:13).

In other words, religious activity apart from conversion will save no one. But religious activity produced by conversion is the condition of our salvation. Once this is understood, it becomes clear that anything God says in His written counsel regarding how we should eat, dress, socialize, worship, etc, is involved with our salvation. Jesus declared that man shall live “by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God” (Matt. 4:4). Everything God says is salvation-related. If it wasn’t, God would have left it alone.


Even Little Things Matter

Many try to dismiss certain lifestyle issues in the church as minor matters, claiming that “Jesus is more important than rules.” This point is often raised when questions like adornment, vegetarianism, and similar topics arise. “Majoring in minors” is a favorite label often attached to those who consider these issues significant.

But if the prophet Daniel hadn’t paid attention to the comparatively “little” issue of eating the king’s meat, he and his companions might never have stood firm when the trumpets sounded on the plain of Dura (Dan. 3:4-6). Very likely they would have been slaughtered with the other wise men at Nebuchadnezzar’s command, since that first compromise might well have led to others which would have made it impossible for the Lord to reveal the king’s dream to Daniel (Dan. 2:19). The devil always make sure that each step of compromise is small enough to defend. The stories of many Bible characters—Samson, David, Solomon, Judas, and countless others—graphically illustrate this point.

One piece of fruit from the wrong tree may have seemed minor to Adam and Eve. But God’s command forbade this, and by disobedience they unleashed six millenniums of horror, loss, and tragedy. Remembering some extra oil might have seemed a small thing for the foolish virgins in Christ’s parable (Matt. 25:3-4). But it was that small choice that barred their admission to the wedding feast.

Perhaps, when compared to other issues, things like jewelry and hamburgers and romance novels are indeed minor. But it was Christ Himself who stated, “He that is faithful in that which is least, is faithful also in much” (Luke 16:10). Those in the church who seek to draw attention away from lifestyle standards in order to be more “Christ-centered,” would do well to consider these words from the lips of our Lord.


A Closer Look at One Issue

Worship styles have become one of the most contentious issues in today’s Adventism. And the popular line heard so often is that how we worship is really no one’s business but ours, that “great minds” need not worship alike, and that culture, generational tastes, and the resistance of older members to change of any kind is what drives this argument.

But from the beginning, the Bible is clear that who we worship is not the only thing that matters. How we worship matters also.

Take Cain and Abel. Both professed to worship God and brought offerings to Him. But because Cain chose to worship in a manner other than what God commanded, his offering was rejected (Gen. 4:3-5). The children of Israel at Mount Sinai claimed to be worshiping God when they made the golden calf, which is why Aaron proclaimed the worship of this idol as “a feast to the Lord” (Ex. 32:5). In later years, King Jeroboam of Israel used the same “culturally relevant” symbols to represent the true God (I Kings 12:20-33).

But God had no more respect for Aaron’s and Jeroboam’s worship innovations than He had had for Cain’s. Indeed, this issue mattered so much to God that three thousand Israelites were put to death as a result (Ex. 32:28). And Jeroboam’s worship experiments so provoked the wrath of God that the king’s entire family was exterminated, and Israel eventually taken captive (I Kings 14:10-16).

One cannot read these stories without recognizing that how we worship is as important to God as who we worship. The attempt by some to view most—if not all—worship choices as a subjective, individual matter is simply not in harmony with the message of Scripture.

Ellen White, over a century ago, predicted the worship forms that are causing such division in the church today. Many are surprised, even shocked, to learn this. Contemporary music, theatrical drama, “clown” ministries—all are mentioned in her writings. And under divine inspiration, she has warned us against them:

“The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting with drums, music, and dancing. The sense of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit.

“The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time” (1).

“Not one jot or tittle of anything theatrical is to be brought into our work. God’s cause is to have a sacred, heavenly mold. Let everything connected with the giving of the message for this time bear the divine impress. Let nothing of a theatrical nature be permitted, for this would spoil the sacredness of the work.

“I am instructed that we shall meet with all kinds of experiences and that men will try to bring strange performances into the work of God. We have met such things in many places. In my very first labors the message was given that all theatrical performances in connection with the preaching of present truth were to be discouraged and forbidden” (2).

“We need to study methods whereby we may preach the gospel to the poor and downtrodden and degraded of humanity. But let no one think that God will approve of a method that will require a man to act the part of a clown, or like a man who has lost his senses. Such methods as these are wholly unnecessary and inappropriate” (3).

What is especially sobering is her statement that these styles of music will come into our church “just before the close of probation” (4). That gives us an idea of where we are in history!

In Revelation 13 we learn that the great final test for humanity will be over worship. Just as Adam and Even confronted a choice between two trees, you and I will be faced with a choice between two days of worship. And if we delude ourselves into thinking that how we worship doesn’t matter so long as Jesus is worshiped and praised, how will we stand when other Christians seek to convince us that making a big deal over which day on which to worship is—like other standards we’ve come to think lightly of—just another legalistic technicality?


The Bottom Line

When Saul of Tarsus, the once-proud persecutor, found himself blind on the Damascus Road, he cried from the depths of a heart now contrite, ”Lord, what wilt Thou have me to do?” Acts 9:6).

Here, at the bottom line, is the key to the whole debate over standards in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Such discussions serve no purpose so long as they focus on how much of the world I can bring into the church, how much of self I can cling to and still call myself a Seventh-day Adventist Christian. Religion is not merely one of life’s many priorities, to be counterbalanced with the others. My relationship with God is not merely one of my many relationships. True conversion is not a negotiated settlement; it is unconditional surrender.

Only when the written counsel of God is accepted as the absolute sovereign of all we think, say, and do can we rightly answer the question, How should a Christian live? It is time for Seventh-day Adventist young adults to at last fall on the Rock Christ Jesus, let themselves be broken, and thus join the Master in His prayer, “Not My will, but Thine, be done” (Luke 22:42).

REFERENCES

1. Ellen G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 2, p. 36.

2. ----Evangelism, p. 137.

3. ----Signs of the Times, March 19, 1894.

4. ----Selected Messages, vol. 2, p. 36.


Kevin Paulson is pastor of the Peekskill, New York, Seventh-day Adventist Church, just north of New York City. He is also editor of Quo Vadis, a magazine for SDA young adults. Kevin invites his readers to contact him by e-mail if they wish, at Kevin@quovadismagazine.org.

"Justin" (or should I say Kevin?),

Perhaps if you would actually take the time to read Ed's book you would understand what he is saying and realize how off the mark your out-of context comments and criticism really are. Even if you had actually paid attention to just the seven principles he proposes for worship music that I posted previously you would realize the ridiculousness of your question "Does this mean that the whole congregation should yield, for the good of the whole body, to the wishes of some misguided young people who want to employ the rock style music in the congregational worship?" The sixth principle says "Music that offends some in the congregation is not acceptable, because it destroys the unity of the body of Christ." How much more plain and simple does he need to get?

How on earth do you deduce "subtly negative associations" from advocating MORE congregational singing of hymns , avoiding empty formal worship, truly caring for one another and carrying each others burdens -- all to be done in a spirit of love and unity? I am amazed and dumbfounded!!!

As for your supposed "negative association" about his comment about decorous but dead worship, I think he is being far more diplomatic and reserved about the very same problem that EGW addressed:

“The evil of formal worship cannot be too strongly depicted, but no words can properly set forth the deep blessedness of genuine worship. When human beings sing with the spirit and the understanding, heavenly musicians take up the strain and join in the song of thanksgiving.” (Ellen G. White, Testimonies for the Church, vol. 9, p. 143).

Or how about this one:

"There is too much formality in our religious services. The Lord would have His ministers who preach the word energized by His Holy Spirit; and the people who hear should not sit in drowsy indifference, or stare vacantly about, making no responses to what is said. ... There should be wide-awake, active churches to encourage and uphold the ministers of Christ and to aid them in the work of saving souls. Where the church is walking in the light, there will ever be cheerful, hearty responses and words of joyful praise." (Ellen G. White, Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, p. 318)


Tom

"Justin",

It is alarming and sadly ironic how contentious your comments are over, of all things, the subject of unity. I would simply invite you to do two things. Do an electronic search in EGW's writings using just two words, "unity" and "importance". And read 8T239-243.

More directly addressing your comments above:

"There are some who will wish to follow their own crude notions; but they must learn to receive advice and to work in harmony with their brethren, or they will sow doubt and discord that they will not care to harvest. It is the will of God that those who engage in His work shall be subject to one another. His worship must be conducted with consistency, unity, and sound judgment. " - 5T270. [emphasis added.]

"Under two heads, love to God and love to our neighbor, all the precepts are bound together in a sacred unity. These two principles are immutable, as eternal as the throne of God. By them man's character is tested, and he is shown to be obedient or disobedient. Those who obey the first, loving God supremely, will pour out the riches of God's goodness in love and compassion to their fellow-men. They will do far more than merely acknowledge the truth; they will offer far more than a ceremonial worship; they will give to God the whole service required by Him; for supreme love to God is an evidence that the truth is an abiding principle in the heart." - ST, January 25, 1899.

And last, your statment "The true unity (that the Bible talks about) can never be built on the basis of developing a relationship among sinners." We are all sinners. All we have to choose from to establish any human relationship is sinners. How do we connect with sinners in order to present the gospel to them if some sort of relationship is not established. Jesus himself united pure and holy divinity with sinful humanity in order to save us. He did not shun sinners but sought a relationship with sinners to save them. I think you greatly misrepresent what sort of unity Jesus prayed for.

Tom


[ July 25, 2003, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: Tom Wetmore ]

Tom, Tom,

You've been busy searching EGW writngs...

Read carefully what I said and what EGW said also. We don't diagree. The order of our focus is foremost the love of God (and all of His precepts and principles) and then comes the love of our neighbors.

Without the first firmly settled in our mind and heart, our ragged attempt on the second never amount to anything in the scheme of God's salvation plan. Ed Christian's statement, in my view, lacks clear focus on this order of the Gospel.

The unity based on the mere relationship among beleivers without each one of them having a clear focus on the first by showing the willingness to deny self's various menifestations is that of a social club. Some may call it the Adventist Club.

I am not buying this sort of unity, bro, because I've seen too much misuse by unsavory characters with this sort of concept.

I will gladly subject my opinion to others when their proposition is solidly based on God's command and promise. I will not do so just because it comes from so-called some authority figures or it is the majority opinion. Based on my cursory review of our Christian history, it is evident to me that this is never a safe option.

Justin

I am finding this topic interesting.

Only a few days ago here at Maritime Campmeeting I purchased Ed Christian's book, Joyful Noise.

As soon as things slow down here I plan to get into that book and contribute more to this topic.

I also believe it is a good thing to compare it to any of the writings of EGW on this topic, and anything closely related to this topic of worship, music, and unity.

Daryl, have you finished the book yet?

Tom

I only arrived back home a couple of days ago.

I also am reading about 3 to 4 books at the same time.

I soon plan on spending more time reading that book.

Just reviving this topic to make it easier to find for those who follow my suggestion elswhere to come here and read this topic.

Tom