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Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35924
12/28/04 08:04 AM
12/28/04 08:04 AM
D
Doug Meister  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 162
The North State - California
..

[ January 01, 2005, 06:43 AM: Message edited by: Doug Meister ]

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35925
12/28/04 12:43 PM
12/28/04 12:43 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Doug

quote:
Matt 24:6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

When Jesus Himself said earthquakes would be a sign, who are we to say earthquakes are unimportant?
1 Thessalonians 5:3
While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
The price of ignoring what God says is not small [Frown]

/Thomas

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35926
12/28/04 03:10 PM
12/28/04 03:10 PM
Ikan  Offline
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
Sorry doug; you misjudge my point. I am not a "signs-hunter" by any stretch of the imagination.
Signs are for unbelievers; those who study the Word don't need external proofs of the nearness of His return. Their hearts tell them.

My point is: Did our common enemy, Satan, leverage these "natural" disasters to kill and destroy....or is God "punishing" sinners, in this case sinners who know almost nothing of His Gospel?

Right now, millions are asking themselves "Was this God/god/Allah or the evil _________ that caused this horror?"

I doubt if you were there, Doug, you would just write it off as just another National Geographic info-drama.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35927
12/28/04 03:11 PM
12/28/04 03:11 PM
John H.  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,150
North Carolina, USA
Well, this morning the death toll has risen to 44,000. According to the NOAA, that's the 2nd-highest death toll from tsunamis in history. The only higher death toll was in 1410 B.C., in the Greek islands of Santorini and Crete.

Looking at this disaster in light of prophecy, the fact that we're in the judgment hour, the statements from Ellen White regarding disasters, and the historical proportions of the death toll we're presently seeing -- how can one *not* say that this has end-times relevance.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35928
12/29/04 04:37 AM
12/29/04 04:37 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Actually, Ikan, the context of the quote I shared from Maranatha is during the MOB crisis, and by that time the entire world will be either for or against the seal of God (sabbath), for or against the mark of the beast (sunday). There won't be any fence riders at that time, which means all of your non-Christian natives will have either accepted or rejected your missionary efforts.

I agree with Doug, in that natural disasters have been happening all along. Nothing new about it. Yes, they seem to be more frequent, and the death toll greater each time, but I suppose increased population and an older earth can account for it. We can add manmade disasters to the tally too. Things are certainly heating up.

But not until the world's pastors and politicians start viewing them as signs of God's displeasure and begin clamoring for Sunday laws will such things count from a prophetic standpoint, from a last day events perspective. Without sunday agitation we cannot interpret natural disasters in light of last day events. Yes, eventually they will lead up to it, but there is no such indication as yet.

Who is responsible for the natural disasters? I believe God is in control, therefore, He is either causing them or allowing Satan to cause them. Either way, God is in control - not nature, not sin, not Satan. There is a purpose behind it all. God is trying to get our attention, to wake us up. Time is running out. How we respond to death and disaster either tells for or against the kingdom and character of God. Tragic times calls for triumphant action. Let's get busy being Christlike and help these poor people out.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35929
12/28/04 05:57 PM
12/28/04 05:57 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
There is a purpose behind it all. God is trying to get our attention, to wake us up. Time is running out. How we respond to death and disaster either tells for or against the kingdom and character of God. Tragic times calls for triumphant action. Let's get busy being Christlike and help these poor people out.

In my view this statement here implies that this would have a prophetic purpose, though perhaps not with the message that Jesus will come withing xy days because this happened this last weekend.

/Thomas

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35930
12/28/04 07:08 PM
12/28/04 07:08 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The Adventist Development and Relief Agency (ADRA) is asking for donations to help the victims. Please, go to this link and give whatever you can. Thank you.

http://www.adra.org/ADRANews/122804.html

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35931
12/29/04 01:19 AM
12/29/04 01:19 AM
Restin  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 195
Apopka, Florida, USA
Besides, explaining the cause of a disaster is not necessarily explaining it away. Understanding the science of the earth and weather is just thinking God's thoughts after him. Science shows HOW God does things, or Satan twists them. Christian scientists now believe that "the treasures of the hail" are nuclear power that God has at his command.
The El Nino could well be a hot spot generated by the science of Lucifer, or that of God. Just being able to say that the world's weather problems are caused by El Nino, or such, isn't necessarily extricating God or Satan from initiating it. Ditto for the earthquakes. I agree with Mike Lowe about how we will know these disasters are prophetic when they become a religious concern by the general populace.

I'm even thinking that God may use some kind of supernatural catastrophe (like fire and brimstone) specifically so that the scientists will not be able to pass it off as natural. Something has to happen, worldwide, that causes the majority of people to believe that God is doing it, not nature. It has to be interpreted as religious for all the panic striken world to give their allegiance to a church authority, the papacy, to "appease" God and save the world from what's happening.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35932
12/29/04 03:25 AM
12/29/04 03:25 AM
Ikan  Offline
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
My! Looks like one could never tell if a disaster was from God, Satan, Nature or Man, according to the replies here. Not much consulation for the suffering minds, would it be?

A pastor in these disaster zones attempting to comfort sould spiritually would be pretty useless with these rather hazy attitudes.

How does Sister White react to disasters in her day?:

"The enemy has worked, and he is working still. He is come down in great power, and the Spirit of God is being withdrawn from the earth. God has withdrawn His hand. We have only to look at Johnstown [Pennsylvania]. He did not prevent the devil from wiping that whole city out of existence. [ON MAY 31, 1889, AN ESTIMATED 2,200 PEOPLE LOST THEIR LIVES IN THE JOHNSTOWN FLOOD WHEN A DAM BROKE AFTER MANY DAYS OF HEAVY RAINS.] And these very things will increase until the close of this earth's history." --1SAT 109 (1889). {LDE 25.2}

Doug I'm sorry you see EGW as having an "active imagination"; Is she whipping up stuff here, as well, in your opinion?


Mike I have really difficulties with this stand of yours:

"But not until the world's pastors and politicians start viewing them as signs of God's displeasure and begin clamoring for Sunday laws will such things count from a prophetic standpoint, from a last day events perspective."

Did the consensus of fallen religious leaders make valid other past prophetic events, like the birth of Christ, the Reformation or the Midnight Cry? Of course not.

You probably meant something else, for I cannot see you actually thinking that the actions of the deluded prompt God's actions. It surely is the other way around. Light stirs the rats from the corners, not the rats stir the Light.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35933
12/29/04 04:01 AM
12/29/04 04:01 AM
John H.  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,150
North Carolina, USA
Some more interesting statements showing clearly that events like Sunday's disaster aren't just random capricious occurrences of nature:
"In the last scenes of this earth's history, war will rage. There will be pestilence, plague, and famine. The waters of the great deep will overflow their boundaries. Property and life will be destroyed by fire and flood. Disasters will come unexpectedly upon the world. This should show us that the souls for whom Christ has died should be fitting up for the mansions that He has gone to prepare for them. There is rest from earth's conflict. Where is it? -- 'That where I am, there ye may be also' (John 14:3). Heaven is where Christ is. Heaven would not be heaven to those who love Jesus, if He were not there."
{Manuscript 41, 1896, p. 4}

"Those who seek to make it appear that there is no special meaning attached to the judgments that the Lord is now sending upon the earth will soon be forced to understand that which now they do not choose to understand."
{RH 08-20-03 para. 17}

"Calamities are becoming more and more common, but every report of calamity by sea or by land is a testimony of the fact that the end of all things is near. The world is filled with iniquity, and the Lord is punishing [the world] for its wickedness. As crime and iniquity increase, these judgments will become more frequent and more marked, until the time shall come when the 'earth shall no more cover her slain' (Isaiah 26:21)."
{APOC 214.8}

"Already the restraining Spirit of God is being withdrawn from the earth. Hurricanes, storms, tempests, fire and flood, disasters by sea and land, follow each other in quick succession. Science seeks to explain all these. The signs thickening around us, telling of the near approach of the Son of God, are attributed to any other than the true cause. Men cannot discern the sentinel angels restraining the four winds that they may not blow until the servants of God are sealed; but when God shall bid His angels loose the winds, there will be such a scene of His avenging wrath as no pen can picture."
{RH 01-11-87 para. 14}

"At this time, when awful calamities are sweeping away the most costly structures as if by a breath of fire from heaven, many sinners are afraid, and stand trembling before God. Now is our opportunity to make known the truth to them."
{RH 05-24-06 para. 13}

---

"Frequently we hear of earthquakes, of tempests and tornadoes, accompanied with thunder and lightning. Apparently these are capricious outbreaks of seemingly disorganized, unregulated forces. But God has a purpose in permitting these calamities to occur. They are one of His means of calling men and women to their senses. By unusual workings through nature God will express to doubting human agencies that which He clearly reveals in His Word. He will answer the question, 'Who hath gathered the wind in His fists?' He will reveal Himself as the One who 'maketh the clouds His chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind.' 'He bringeth the wind out of His treasuries.' 'The Lord sitteth upon the flood; yea, the Lord sitteth King for ever.' 'He gave to the sea His decree, that the waters should not pass His commandment: when He appointed the foundations of the earth.' 'He looketh on the earth, and it trembleth: He toucheth the hills, and they smoke.'"
{19MR 279.3}

"Local disturbances in nature are permitted to take place as symbols of that which may be expected all over the world when the angels loose the four winds of the earth. The forces of nature are under the direction of an Eternal Agency. Science, in her pride, may seek to explain strange happenings on land and on sea; but science fails of tracing in these things the workings of Providence."
{19MR 280.1}
Notice that God allows these things to happen as a "means of calling men and women to their senses." Not just professedly Christian men and women:
"God keeps a reckoning with nations as well as with individuals. He allows the nations a certain period of probation, and gives them evidences of His requirements, of His supremacy, and makes known to them His laws, which are to be the rule of His kingdom in the government of nations. All this He does that heathen nations may not be given up to destruction unwarned, and without light. But, after He has given light and evidence, and they still persist in insolence toward Him, then, when their iniquity is full, God takes the matter in hand, and His judgments are no longer withheld."
{Letter 13, 1893, p. 12.}

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