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Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35914
12/26/04 05:07 PM
12/26/04 05:07 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Southwest USA
We need to pray for the people affected by yet another terrible earthquake and resulting tidal waves. If possible we should help with financial aid.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6754820/?GT1=5936

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35915
12/27/04 02:19 AM
12/27/04 02:19 AM
D
Doug Meister  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 162
The North State - California
.

[ January 01, 2005, 06:42 AM: Message edited by: Doug Meister ]

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35916
12/27/04 03:35 AM
12/27/04 03:35 AM
John H.  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,150
North Carolina, USA
The following was posted tonight on Pastor Larry K.'s GCOList by Hal Mayer of Hartland College:

quote:
Subject: [GCOList] FW: SAVED BY GRACE
From: "Hal Mayer"
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:29:13 -0500
To: "GCO List"


Dear list, Tania Beavers (an Indian) is a Graduate of Hartland College working in Tamil Nadu with her husband Brian (an American) and her parents Timothy and Anita Tharasingh at a self-supporting school and orphanage there in India. The following is their harrowing, almost minute by minute account of their narrow escape from the Tsunami with their 18 children. Think what would have happened to them if they would have been sleeping in the middle of the night. Note that they had 15 minutes to get their things before the second Tsunami hit (I don’t know who Joab and Jonah are – my guess is that they are Indian workers at the school).

Regards, Hal



-----Original Message-----


Friday 24th December

0600 hrs: Timothy, Anita, Brian and Tania arrive Chennai from Mumbai by train and take a taxi to Mahabalipuram Scripture Union Seaside Camp site.

1230 hrs: Vellore CMC SDA group arrive SU Seaside Camp site taking us by surprise as this was not planned.

2030 hrs: eighteen children from Green Pastures Home School, Kalrayan Hills arrive by van at Mahabalipuram Scripture Union campsite.


Saturday sabbath 25th December

0915 hrs: Brian takes sabbath school on Daniel and Revelation for the combined GPHS and CMC groups. Pastor Kisku takes divine service with cutting message on the fallacies of the 25th of December.

1900 hrs: most of CMC group leave camp site except for two families and pastor.

1930 hrs: Brian, Tania, Anita and children on the sea shore enjoying moon rise. Return to rooms at 2100 hrs.


Sunday 26th December

0700 hrs: Anita and children go to sea shore to pray and view sunrise and enjoy nature.

0830 hrs: Anita and children return to rooms to pack and transfer luggage to first floor dormitories as rooms were required by other guests arriving that morning. Whole group gets ready to leave for breakfast by van to nearby restaurant.

0900 hrs: group leaves camp site by van for breakfast.

0930 hrs: first tsunami hits exact spot where Anita and children had been praying a half hour before. We hear the news while having breakfast and rush by van to the campsite to see water had entered the rooms and most of the three acre campsite up to about three feet high and had receded.

0945: van unable to enter campsite due to sludge. Group rushes to dormitories and retrieve bags and luggage and rush back to van. Meanwhile one small car owned by SDA doctor parked near the rooms which are quite close to the seashore was washed inland about hundred metres. Brethren manage to push car on to the highway.

1000 hrs: second tsunami hits while we make it to the highway. We decide to head for Chennai city about 70 kms away to put Brian, Joab and Jonah on the train to Madurai for a one week camp meeting. We receive warnings from oncoming cars that seawater had crossed onto some parts of the road. Group turns back and heads inland to Chinglepet station hoping to put Brian, Joab and Jonah on the train at Chinglepet station.

1200 hrs: group arrives at Chinglepet station after running gauntlet of thousands of people fleeing the sea side dwellings in fear and panic on foot clutching on to whatever they could carry. Many were mourning and crying for the loss of their loved ones. It seemed as if the Lord had opened a small window for us to see exactly what would happen at the end of time. This was no movie..

1345 hrs: train arrives Chinglepet station with Brian, Joab and Jonah's reserved seats intact. Praise the Lord!! For more than an hour two angels had kept their seats for them in spite of the train being packed. Train leaves for Madurai with three of them safe on board!

1400 hrs: Timothy, Anita, Tania and the rest of the children leave for Kalrayan hills. Arrive safely at 2030 hrs.


Following are the verses from the Bible that Anita had selected for prayer and meditation that very morning:

Job 38: 8 & 11...or who shut up the sea with doors when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?....and said, hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed.

We stand in awe at the timing of His providence. Once more He has proved faithful to His word that He will never leave us nor forsake us. We are more than aware now that the time is very short and the work that we must do, we must do quickly!! Matthew 24: 7 to 13 is beginning to be played out. Please continue to pray for us. Our one week of meetings at Bombay on 'the new world order' (Brian) and 'true education' (Timothy) caused a whole group of teachers to decide to pull out their children from the present false system of education and opt for home schooling in the country!! Praise the Lord!!!

Timothy & Anita Tharasingh, Brian & Tania Beavers, and the children of Green Pastures Home School wish each one of you a blessed and happy New Year.


Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35917
12/27/04 04:58 AM
12/27/04 04:58 AM
debbie  Offline
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Posts: 1,116
USA
Praise the Lord for His protective power!

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35918
12/27/04 07:54 AM
12/27/04 07:54 AM
Ikan  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
So: Is this the wrath of God upon sinners or Satan sweeping lost souls into his net? How can you tell?

(Remember how the rabbis answered when Christ asked for them to answer plainly in Luke 20:5~7)

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35919
12/27/04 02:44 PM
12/27/04 02:44 PM
debbie  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,116
USA
In Isaiah 49 it says "thy walls are continually before me" and we read in our morning watch book several days ago in reference to this verse that God does watch over us to keep us safe from dangers. Also Psalms 91 speaks about a thousand falling at thy right hand and 10,000 on the left but it shall not come to us (my translation).

In the news it was reported there was (in India) also an adult with 15 children on the beach that morning doing some kind of Hindu ritual worship because it was a new moon or some such thing--they were all swept away by the tsunamis.

God DOES take care of His own. But if this SDA missionary couple and their 18 children were swept away by the tsunami, then we would know this was within the will of God.

The important thing is that we ALL need to have everything made right with the Lord--no matter how hard it might be to say we are sorry--we must have a totally clear conscience and be stictly honest in everything--keeping our consciences clear. We do not know when our probations will close.

We need not sit in comfort thinking it will not happen here--there will seem to not be a safe place on earth for what is going to happen just before Jesus comes.

It is a wake-up call to all of us!

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35920
12/27/04 03:40 PM
12/27/04 03:40 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Sweden
God is able to protect specificly all of those who has made it a habbit to listen for His voise. And that wether this weather was of His doing or not.

/Thomas

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35921
12/28/04 04:02 AM
12/28/04 04:02 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Maranatha
Chap. 168 - Calamities Blamed on God's People

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Rev. 12:12.

As men depart further and further from God, Satan is permitted to have power over the children of disobedience. He hurls destruction among men. There is calamity by land and sea. Property and life are destroyed by fire and flood. Satan resolves to charge this upon those who refuse to bow to the idol which he has set up. His agents point to Seventh-day Adventists as the cause of the trouble. "These people stand out in defiance of law," they say. "They desecrate Sunday. Were they compelled to obey the law for Sunday observance, there would be a cessation of these terrible judgments." {Mar 176.1}

Calamities will come--calamities most awful, most unexpected; and these destructions will follow one after another. If there will be a heeding of the warnings that God has given, and if churches will repent, returning to their allegiance, then other cities may be spared for a time. But if men who have been deceived continue in the same way in which they have been walking, disregarding the law of God and presenting falsehoods before the people, God allows them to suffer calamity, that their senses may be awakened. {Mar 176.2}

The judgments will be according to the wickedness of the people and the light of truth that they have had. If they have had the truth, according to that light will be the punishment. {Mar 176.3}

Satan puts his interpretation upon events, and they [leading men] think, as he would have them, that the calamities which fill the land are a result of Sunday-breaking. Thinking to appease the wrath of God, these influential men make laws enforcing Sunday observance. They think that by exalting this false rest-day higher, and still higher, compelling obedience to the Sunday law, the spurious sabbath, they are doing God service. Those who honor God by observing the true Sabbath are looked upon as disloyal to God, when it is really those who thus regard them who are themselves disloyal, because they are trampling under foot the Sabbath originated in Eden. {Mar 176.4}

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35922
12/28/04 07:24 AM
12/28/04 07:24 AM
Ikan  Offline
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Mike Your quotes are directed to "Christianized" countries, ones able and knowledgeable of Bible repentance, not non-christian cultures. There is a vast difference.
I am speaking of this loss of over 40,0000 unbeleivers (the vast majority): I repeat: Did God kill them or Satan?

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35923
12/28/04 07:29 AM
12/28/04 07:29 AM
Ikan  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
quote:
Originally posted by debbie:


We need not sit in comfort thinking it will not happen here--there will seem to not be a safe place on earth for what is going to happen just before Jesus comes.

It is a wake-up call to all of us!

Amen, Debbie! But this IS the time "just before Jesus comes"!

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35924
12/28/04 08:04 AM
12/28/04 08:04 AM
D
Doug Meister  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 162
The North State - California
..

[ January 01, 2005, 06:43 AM: Message edited by: Doug Meister ]

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35925
12/28/04 12:43 PM
12/28/04 12:43 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Doug

quote:
Matt 24:6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

When Jesus Himself said earthquakes would be a sign, who are we to say earthquakes are unimportant?
1 Thessalonians 5:3
While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
The price of ignoring what God says is not small [Frown]

/Thomas

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35926
12/28/04 03:10 PM
12/28/04 03:10 PM
Ikan  Offline
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Posts: 1,664
Plowing
Sorry doug; you misjudge my point. I am not a "signs-hunter" by any stretch of the imagination.
Signs are for unbelievers; those who study the Word don't need external proofs of the nearness of His return. Their hearts tell them.

My point is: Did our common enemy, Satan, leverage these "natural" disasters to kill and destroy....or is God "punishing" sinners, in this case sinners who know almost nothing of His Gospel?

Right now, millions are asking themselves "Was this God/god/Allah or the evil _________ that caused this horror?"

I doubt if you were there, Doug, you would just write it off as just another National Geographic info-drama.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35927
12/28/04 03:11 PM
12/28/04 03:11 PM
John H.  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,150
North Carolina, USA
Well, this morning the death toll has risen to 44,000. According to the NOAA, that's the 2nd-highest death toll from tsunamis in history. The only higher death toll was in 1410 B.C., in the Greek islands of Santorini and Crete.

Looking at this disaster in light of prophecy, the fact that we're in the judgment hour, the statements from Ellen White regarding disasters, and the historical proportions of the death toll we're presently seeing -- how can one *not* say that this has end-times relevance.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35928
12/29/04 04:37 AM
12/29/04 04:37 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Southwest USA
Actually, Ikan, the context of the quote I shared from Maranatha is during the MOB crisis, and by that time the entire world will be either for or against the seal of God (sabbath), for or against the mark of the beast (sunday). There won't be any fence riders at that time, which means all of your non-Christian natives will have either accepted or rejected your missionary efforts.

I agree with Doug, in that natural disasters have been happening all along. Nothing new about it. Yes, they seem to be more frequent, and the death toll greater each time, but I suppose increased population and an older earth can account for it. We can add manmade disasters to the tally too. Things are certainly heating up.

But not until the world's pastors and politicians start viewing them as signs of God's displeasure and begin clamoring for Sunday laws will such things count from a prophetic standpoint, from a last day events perspective. Without sunday agitation we cannot interpret natural disasters in light of last day events. Yes, eventually they will lead up to it, but there is no such indication as yet.

Who is responsible for the natural disasters? I believe God is in control, therefore, He is either causing them or allowing Satan to cause them. Either way, God is in control - not nature, not sin, not Satan. There is a purpose behind it all. God is trying to get our attention, to wake us up. Time is running out. How we respond to death and disaster either tells for or against the kingdom and character of God. Tragic times calls for triumphant action. Let's get busy being Christlike and help these poor people out.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35929
12/28/04 05:57 PM
12/28/04 05:57 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Posts: 3,965
Sweden
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
There is a purpose behind it all. God is trying to get our attention, to wake us up. Time is running out. How we respond to death and disaster either tells for or against the kingdom and character of God. Tragic times calls for triumphant action. Let's get busy being Christlike and help these poor people out.

In my view this statement here implies that this would have a prophetic purpose, though perhaps not with the message that Jesus will come withing xy days because this happened this last weekend.

/Thomas

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35930
12/28/04 07:08 PM
12/28/04 07:08 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Southwest USA
The Adventist Development and Relief Agency (ADRA) is asking for donations to help the victims. Please, go to this link and give whatever you can. Thank you.

http://www.adra.org/ADRANews/122804.html

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35931
12/29/04 01:19 AM
12/29/04 01:19 AM
Restin  Offline
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Posts: 195
Apopka, Florida, USA
Besides, explaining the cause of a disaster is not necessarily explaining it away. Understanding the science of the earth and weather is just thinking God's thoughts after him. Science shows HOW God does things, or Satan twists them. Christian scientists now believe that "the treasures of the hail" are nuclear power that God has at his command.
The El Nino could well be a hot spot generated by the science of Lucifer, or that of God. Just being able to say that the world's weather problems are caused by El Nino, or such, isn't necessarily extricating God or Satan from initiating it. Ditto for the earthquakes. I agree with Mike Lowe about how we will know these disasters are prophetic when they become a religious concern by the general populace.

I'm even thinking that God may use some kind of supernatural catastrophe (like fire and brimstone) specifically so that the scientists will not be able to pass it off as natural. Something has to happen, worldwide, that causes the majority of people to believe that God is doing it, not nature. It has to be interpreted as religious for all the panic striken world to give their allegiance to a church authority, the papacy, to "appease" God and save the world from what's happening.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35932
12/29/04 03:25 AM
12/29/04 03:25 AM
Ikan  Offline
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Posts: 1,664
Plowing
My! Looks like one could never tell if a disaster was from God, Satan, Nature or Man, according to the replies here. Not much consulation for the suffering minds, would it be?

A pastor in these disaster zones attempting to comfort sould spiritually would be pretty useless with these rather hazy attitudes.

How does Sister White react to disasters in her day?:

"The enemy has worked, and he is working still. He is come down in great power, and the Spirit of God is being withdrawn from the earth. God has withdrawn His hand. We have only to look at Johnstown [Pennsylvania]. He did not prevent the devil from wiping that whole city out of existence. [ON MAY 31, 1889, AN ESTIMATED 2,200 PEOPLE LOST THEIR LIVES IN THE JOHNSTOWN FLOOD WHEN A DAM BROKE AFTER MANY DAYS OF HEAVY RAINS.] And these very things will increase until the close of this earth's history." --1SAT 109 (1889). {LDE 25.2}

Doug I'm sorry you see EGW as having an "active imagination"; Is she whipping up stuff here, as well, in your opinion?


Mike I have really difficulties with this stand of yours:

"But not until the world's pastors and politicians start viewing them as signs of God's displeasure and begin clamoring for Sunday laws will such things count from a prophetic standpoint, from a last day events perspective."

Did the consensus of fallen religious leaders make valid other past prophetic events, like the birth of Christ, the Reformation or the Midnight Cry? Of course not.

You probably meant something else, for I cannot see you actually thinking that the actions of the deluded prompt God's actions. It surely is the other way around. Light stirs the rats from the corners, not the rats stir the Light.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35933
12/29/04 04:01 AM
12/29/04 04:01 AM
John H.  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,150
North Carolina, USA
Some more interesting statements showing clearly that events like Sunday's disaster aren't just random capricious occurrences of nature:
"In the last scenes of this earth's history, war will rage. There will be pestilence, plague, and famine. The waters of the great deep will overflow their boundaries. Property and life will be destroyed by fire and flood. Disasters will come unexpectedly upon the world. This should show us that the souls for whom Christ has died should be fitting up for the mansions that He has gone to prepare for them. There is rest from earth's conflict. Where is it? -- 'That where I am, there ye may be also' (John 14:3). Heaven is where Christ is. Heaven would not be heaven to those who love Jesus, if He were not there."
{Manuscript 41, 1896, p. 4}

"Those who seek to make it appear that there is no special meaning attached to the judgments that the Lord is now sending upon the earth will soon be forced to understand that which now they do not choose to understand."
{RH 08-20-03 para. 17}

"Calamities are becoming more and more common, but every report of calamity by sea or by land is a testimony of the fact that the end of all things is near. The world is filled with iniquity, and the Lord is punishing [the world] for its wickedness. As crime and iniquity increase, these judgments will become more frequent and more marked, until the time shall come when the 'earth shall no more cover her slain' (Isaiah 26:21)."
{APOC 214.8}

"Already the restraining Spirit of God is being withdrawn from the earth. Hurricanes, storms, tempests, fire and flood, disasters by sea and land, follow each other in quick succession. Science seeks to explain all these. The signs thickening around us, telling of the near approach of the Son of God, are attributed to any other than the true cause. Men cannot discern the sentinel angels restraining the four winds that they may not blow until the servants of God are sealed; but when God shall bid His angels loose the winds, there will be such a scene of His avenging wrath as no pen can picture."
{RH 01-11-87 para. 14}

"At this time, when awful calamities are sweeping away the most costly structures as if by a breath of fire from heaven, many sinners are afraid, and stand trembling before God. Now is our opportunity to make known the truth to them."
{RH 05-24-06 para. 13}

---

"Frequently we hear of earthquakes, of tempests and tornadoes, accompanied with thunder and lightning. Apparently these are capricious outbreaks of seemingly disorganized, unregulated forces. But God has a purpose in permitting these calamities to occur. They are one of His means of calling men and women to their senses. By unusual workings through nature God will express to doubting human agencies that which He clearly reveals in His Word. He will answer the question, 'Who hath gathered the wind in His fists?' He will reveal Himself as the One who 'maketh the clouds His chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind.' 'He bringeth the wind out of His treasuries.' 'The Lord sitteth upon the flood; yea, the Lord sitteth King for ever.' 'He gave to the sea His decree, that the waters should not pass His commandment: when He appointed the foundations of the earth.' 'He looketh on the earth, and it trembleth: He toucheth the hills, and they smoke.'"
{19MR 279.3}

"Local disturbances in nature are permitted to take place as symbols of that which may be expected all over the world when the angels loose the four winds of the earth. The forces of nature are under the direction of an Eternal Agency. Science, in her pride, may seek to explain strange happenings on land and on sea; but science fails of tracing in these things the workings of Providence."
{19MR 280.1}
Notice that God allows these things to happen as a "means of calling men and women to their senses." Not just professedly Christian men and women:
"God keeps a reckoning with nations as well as with individuals. He allows the nations a certain period of probation, and gives them evidences of His requirements, of His supremacy, and makes known to them His laws, which are to be the rule of His kingdom in the government of nations. All this He does that heathen nations may not be given up to destruction unwarned, and without light. But, after He has given light and evidence, and they still persist in insolence toward Him, then, when their iniquity is full, God takes the matter in hand, and His judgments are no longer withheld."
{Letter 13, 1893, p. 12.}

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35934
12/29/04 05:39 AM
12/29/04 05:39 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Ikan, here's what I mean:

GC 589-591
Satan works through the elements also to garner his harvest of unprepared souls. He has studied the secrets of the laboratories of nature, and he uses all his power to control the elements as far as God allows… Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will favor and prosper some in order to further his own designs, and he will bring trouble upon others and lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them. {GC 589.2}

While appearing to the children of men as a great physician who can heal all their maladies, he will bring disease and disaster, until populous cities are reduced to ruin and desolation. Even now he is at work. In accidents and calamities by sea and by land, in great conflagrations, in fierce tornadoes and terrific hailstorms, in tempests, floods, cyclones, tidal waves, and earthquakes, in every place and in a thousand forms, Satan is exercising his power. He sweeps away the ripening harvest, and famine and distress follow. He imparts to the air a deadly taint, and thousands perish by the pestilence. These visitations are to become more and more frequent and disastrous. Destruction will be upon both man and beast... {GC 589.3}

... It will be declared that men are offending God by the violation of the Sunday sabbath; that this sin has brought calamities which will not cease until Sunday observance shall be strictly enforced; and that those who present the claims of the fourth commandment, thus destroying reverence for Sunday, are troublers of the people, preventing their restoration to divine favor and temporal prosperity... {GC 590.1}

... {GC 590.2}

... While Satan seeks to destroy those who honor God's law, he will cause them to be accused as lawbreakers, as men who are dishonoring God and bringing judgments upon the world. {GC 591.1}

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35935
12/29/04 05:44 AM
12/29/04 05:44 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
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Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Of course, none of these insights imply that we should not do all we can to help people affected by disaster and devastation. Please, do whatever you can to help. Donating to ADRA is a perfect way to help. A link to ADRA is posted above. Thank you.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35936
12/29/04 08:41 AM
12/29/04 08:41 AM
D
Doug Meister  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 162
The North State - California
...

[ January 01, 2005, 06:44 AM: Message edited by: Doug Meister ]

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35937
12/29/04 08:44 AM
12/29/04 08:44 AM
D
Doug Meister  Offline
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[ January 01, 2005, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: Doug Meister ]

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35938
12/29/04 09:10 AM
12/29/04 09:10 AM
Wendy F  Offline
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I'm sorry Doug. But you are wrong.

Great Controversy P.516

Satan works through the elements also to garner his harvest of unprepared souls. He has studied the secrets of the labratories of nature, and he uses all his power to control the elements as far as God allows. When he was suffered to afflict Job, how quickly flocks and herds, servants, houses, children, were swept away, one trouble succeeding another as in a moment. It is God that shields His creatures and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world have shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would--He will withdraw His blessings from the earth and remove His protecting care from thsoe who are rebelling against His law and teaching and forcing others to do the same. Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will favor and prosper some in order to further his own designs, and he will bring trouble upon others and lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them.

While appearing to the children of men as a great physician who can heal all their maladies, he will bring disease and disaster, until populous cities are reduced to ruin and desolation. Even now he is at work. In accidents and calamities by sea and by land, in great conflagrations, in fierce tornatdoes and terrific hailstorms, in tempests, floods, cyclones, tidal waves, and earthquakes, in eery place and in a thousand forms, Satan is exercising his power. He sweeps away the ripening harvest. He imparts to the air a deadly taint, and thousands perish by hte pestilence. These visitations are to become more and more frequent and disastrous. Destruction will be upon both man and beast. "The earth mourneth and fadeth away," "the haughty people...do languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof;because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant."Isa.24:4,5

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35939
12/29/04 12:38 PM
12/29/04 12:38 PM
Ikan  Offline
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Doug Have you changed your opinion since you wrote this about EGW on another topic?
Originally posted by Doug Meister:
Tom, EGW was a prophet of God, but many times she uses her imagination and embellishes things.

It sounded, in that topic that you felt like EGW sorta stretched things too creatively for your tastes....but perhaps I have misunderstood what you really meant.

John Perfectly wonderful references; thanks!

Wendy F. Bull's eye! and long time no see!

Mike Since we are not in the time of MOB yet, perhaps we should not mix future events with present ones. Tends to confuse, don't you think?

Yes, of course God "allows"; but this in no way means that He is in any sort of partnership with Satan. It is not God sicking the Devil on people; rather isn't it that people have so rejected God that He has "allowed" them to have what they want? And Satan is more than willing to give them every hateful desire and destructive propensity they crave. It matters not whether they are pagans or nominal christians; God will leave them to what they want, if they demand it, and Satan fills in the vacuum.

Once anyone leaves the protection offered by God, whether the barest minimum given to every soul born, or the fullest Truth of the Gospel of Jesus...if anyone refuses the Light, they subject themselves to Satan and his invention...sin and destruction.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35940
12/30/04 04:24 AM
12/30/04 04:24 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Doug, I agree floods, earthquakes, forest fires, tornadoes, etc. are natural occurrences, and can be explained by scientists, but I find it interesting that you can read what Sister White wrote about Satan and natural disasters and still believe he has nothing to do with it.

Ikan, according to Sister White all the natural disasters that devastate populated areas are the result of rejecting or neglecting God and the ensuing wickedness. We agree on this point. Is it wrong to relate this insight to the MOB crisis? Again, according to Sister White it all fits within the great controversy, and tends toward Sunday legislation. Not too confusing.

Is Satan obeying God? It would appear that whenever God allows Satan to spread devastation and desolation he doesn't say, No thanks. Rather, he never passes up the opportunity. He always acts out what God permits. In fact, holy angels are on the scene to make sure evil angels stay within the limits God established. Does God sick Satan on sinners? No, of course not. God holds him back, until He sees fit to punish them, and then He unleashes the Devil.

GC 614
The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits. There are forces now ready, and only waiting the divine permission, to spread desolation everywhere. {GC 614.2}

GC 589
It is God that shields His creatures and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world have shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would--He will withdraw His blessings from the earth and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law and teaching and forcing others to do the same. Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. {GC 589.2}

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35941
12/29/04 09:59 PM
12/29/04 09:59 PM
John H.  Offline
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An interesting phenomenon amidst all the disaster --
quote:
Wildlife officials in Sri Lanka expressed surprise Wednesday that they found no evidence of large-scale animal deaths from the weekend's massive tsunami — indicating that animals may have sensed the wave coming and fled to higher ground.

An Associated Press photographer who flew over Sri Lanka's Yala National Park in an air force helicopter saw abundant wildlife, including elephants, buffalo, deer, and not a single animal corpse.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/29/world/main663787.shtml

Once again the critters are smarter than the people are, sadly.

Reading that article, this passage dealing with Noah's Flood came to mind:
"Some of the people bound their children and themselves upon powerful animals, knowing that these were tenacious of life, and would climb to the highest points to escape the rising waters."
{PP 100.2}

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35942
12/29/04 11:17 PM
12/29/04 11:17 PM
Ikan  Offline
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Mike Everything on this forum deals with the great controversy, yet we need to stay on track, subject by subject, line upon line, here a little there a little. Please feel free to open a topic on the MOB if you like; I'll be happy to post there, too!

Let's look at the whys and wherefors of the deaths and devastations to so many non-christian peoples:

I think the keys are in this quote Mike provided.

"GC 589
It is God that shields His creatures and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world have shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would--He will withdraw His blessings from the earth and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law and teaching and forcing others to do the same. Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard.
{GC 589.2}

Note in line 1 and 2 she writes of all of God's creatures first, than focuses on the "Christian world".

The effected nations in this horror are not, by any stretch of the imagination, a part of the Christian world. They are Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists and have barely been dented by the Gospel, in spite of over 200 years of christian missionary outreach. (See the 1888 GC page 288... This is re-enforced by the efforts of early Adventist mission, headed by Dr. Hare in these effected areas. The impact of the Truth has been numerically very very tiny.)

So some questions:

1)How possible is it that these nations have "filled up their cup of iniquity" and passed a mark, which allows evil to do what it did on Christmas day there?

2) If this is so, how much more will so-called christian nations, PRIOR to any civil legislation regarding Sunday, suffer even worse disasters?

3) If God allows Satan to work out His evil cravings for blood on the ignorant, are not the knowing (those who claim to love Jesus) vulnerable to worse attacks?

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35943
12/29/04 11:39 PM
12/29/04 11:39 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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The Faith I Live By
Chapter 11
The Strange Act of God

For the Lord shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act. Isa. 28:21. {FLB 338.1}

With unerring accuracy the Infinite One still keeps an account with all nations. While His mercy is tendered, with calls to repentance, this account will remain open; but when the figures reach a certain amount which God has fixed, the ministry of His wrath commences. The account is closed. Divine patience ceases. There is no more pleading of mercy in their behalf. {FLB 338.2}

The prophet, looking down the ages, had this time presented before his vision. The nations of this age have been the recipients of unprecedented mercies. . . . But increased pride, covetousness, idolatry, contempt of God, and base ingratitude are written against them. They are fast closing up their account with God. . . . {FLB 338.3}

The crisis is fast approaching. The rapidly swelling figures show that the time for God's visitation has about come. {FLB 338.4}

To our merciful God the act of punishment is a strange act. "As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked." Eze. 33:11. . . . Yet He will "by no means clear the guilty." "The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked." Ex. 34:6, 7; Nahum 1:3. By terrible things in righteousness He will vindicate the authority of His downtrodden law. The severity of the retribution awaiting the transgressor may be judged by the Lord's reluctance to execute justice. The nation with which He bears long, and which He will not smite until it has filled up the measure of its iniquity in God's account, will finally drink the cup of wrath unmixed with mercy. {FLB 338.5}

After God has done all that could be done to save men, if they still show by their lives that they slight offered mercy, death will be their portion; and it will be a dreadful death, for they will have to feel the agony that Christ felt upon the cross. They will then realize what they have lost--eternal life and the immortal inheritance. {FLB 338.6}

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35944
12/29/04 11:46 PM
12/29/04 11:46 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Have the countries affected by this most recent disaster forfeited the protection of God? Has God abandoned them? None of us can answer these questions with certainty. Nor should we try. Our present burden should focus on providing relief however we can. Again, please send your donations to ADRA. It's not too late to help. Thank you.

http://www.adra.org/president-tsunami.html

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35945
12/30/04 12:03 AM
12/30/04 12:03 AM
Ikan  Offline
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Mike A great deal of wondering was done over the 9/11 disaster here and elswhere in relation to God and His role. I see no harm in discussing a horror that is 3000% more deadly in number.

Sri Lanka is the birthplace of Buddhism; Muslim and Hindu nations are crippled. Hedonistic centers of Phuket and Phi Phi are throat-cut. Phuket is the sex-trade/AIDS capital of Asia, which oddly has not been mentioned in the news.

Of course none of these factors must deter those who are lead by the Lord to send aid to the suffering!!

Mike...sigh...Your quotes are originally from the Vol.5 of the Testimonies chapter 24 "The Seal of God".
Please! These folks had no knowledge of the Sabbath issue, true or false one! It is not in the mix.

This is why we need to look at the other reasons for this disaster, not the MOB of the Seal of God.

A child would be very confused if given right data for inappropriate situations...like this one!

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35946
12/30/04 12:40 AM
12/30/04 12:40 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Ikan, the "full cup" criteria is applicable in every disaster. Why? Because God will not permit it unless there is good reason. No one is left unprotected unless God decides they deserve punishment. In some cases God allows catastrophies to demonstrate how faithful we are. Nothing is the result of fate or an accident. God is still in control. I'm not willing to pass judgment on those nations and people who are suffering loss and calamity, but obviously God permitted it for reasons that can only make sense to Him. There's no way you or I or anyone else can articulate those reasons, and we are better off using our time, talent and treasure helping relieve their suffering. My wife and I cancelled a vacation and donated the money to ADRA to help with relief efforts in Asia. I only wish we could do more.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35947
12/30/04 02:34 AM
12/30/04 02:34 AM
Wendy F  Offline
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Mike,

What Ikan is saying is that the country's cup yes is full. Thailand is the center of the child sex trade, and that town in particular. I've been praying that God would save those children for years now. It may seem backwards to you, but who knows how many children were saved the horror of being forced in to sex-slavery? Look how many of the missing are children swept out to sea. A country who cannot and will not protect it's children and in a moment they are swept to sea.

Yes of course we should do all we can and I am so glad you were able and did cancel your vacation and sent that money to help. That is an honorable thing to do. I wish I could do something to help. I'm still searching for something since my finances are always nil.

Ikan,

Good to see you, I trust Francy is well? It has been a long time. I trust it won't be long now till we'll be seeing each other person however considering the direction of events. [Smile]
Re: the EGW quotes, I was led to those very quotes in my earlier reading the night before when I was going to bed and then they were brought to my mind as I was reading Doug's post. God has us do everything for a reason doesn't He?

God bless,
Wendy

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35948
12/30/04 05:33 AM
12/30/04 05:33 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Wendy, I don't know how you and Ikan can say, with such profound confidence, that God allowed this terrible disaster to save children from being sexually exploited. Did God reveal this to you in a vision or a dream? Or, did you just put two and two together? If you are wrong, then you are dreadfully, dreadfully wrong. Why run the risk? At such times, silence is eloquence (unless you have received an inspired revelation).

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35949
12/30/04 05:38 AM
12/30/04 05:38 AM
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Doug Meister  Offline
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[ January 01, 2005, 06:47 AM: Message edited by: Doug Meister ]

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35950
12/30/04 06:55 AM
12/30/04 06:55 AM
Wendy F  Offline
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Mike,

Ellen White said at the end of time thousands of children and others that cannot defend themselves will be laid to rest. I don't have the quote, it's somewhere in Last Day Events so I'm sorry. Yes, I do believe the the evidence of so many of the dead being children, whereas in other disasters the children have seemed to be protected, shows that God has taken it into His own hands to protect the children. If God can protect the sparrow, can't He protect the children from suffering during this tragedy? How do we know that they didn't go quietly and peacefully because He, who controls the universe, protected them from the trauma. And yes, do the research okay? That city is the most prolific for selling children as young as 5 years old to 50 year old American perverts for sex. There was a 20/20 special on it where they had hidden cameras and they showed the children trying to sell themselves to the undercover reporters. It is vile but it exists. The disgusting things that go on in these cities will not be allowed to go on forever and just like Sodom and Gomorrah, where I am sure children were abused also, this city and others were destroyed. God will not allow His children, whom He favors the most, to be abused forever. He will preserve these littlest, most helpless ones until He comes and then take them home to a much better place where they will never be hurt again and they will never be hungry again!


child sex tourism


100 children sexually abused daily in Sri Lanka, a theme?


Police protect child brothels in Thailand


proof?




more?

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35951
12/30/04 07:03 AM
12/30/04 07:03 AM
Wendy F  Offline
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And nobody is saying this tragedy is simply for the effect of saving the children from the sex trade. It's the natural course of events in the last days. However, what I said was that God can use tragedy such as this to possibly save those children from a far worse tragedy later on. We don't know. I don't know. We have no guarantees but that some of those children would have fallen victim to what happened to the children in those articles.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35952
12/30/04 07:55 AM
12/30/04 07:55 AM
Ikan  Offline
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Clearly, Wendy has reported one factor in this hellish mess brought upon themselves. But there are many others. None would stop a christian from helping.

As far as being confident of my take on this situation, there is no need for a "revelation" for me: it is spelled out repeatedly in the EGW's revelations:

The time is at hand when there will be sorrow in the world that no human balm can heal. The Spirit of God is being withdrawn. Disasters by sea and by land follow one another in quick succession. How frequently we hear of earthquakes and tornadoes, of destruction by fire and flood, with great loss of life and property! Apparently these calamities are capricious outbreaks of disorganized, unregulated forces of nature, wholly beyond the control of man; but in them all, God's purpose may be read. They are among the agencies by which He seeks to arouse men and women to a sense of their danger." {PK 277.1}

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35953
12/30/04 08:09 AM
12/30/04 08:09 AM
Ikan  Offline
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Mike: I think the question of confidence and "special revelation" should be asked of Doug. He seems very sure that God and Satan had absolutely nothing to do with this disaster. Any back-up, Doug? Your posts are very similiar to deism.

[ December 30, 2004, 05:31 AM: Message edited by: Ikan ]

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35954
12/30/04 03:57 PM
12/30/04 03:57 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Wendy and Ikan, I do not doubt that the child sex trade MAY be one of the reasons God why allowed this terrible tragedy. What I find difficult to accept is your strong inferrences, without specific divine revelation, that this is exactly why it happened.

When I read about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Bible or SOP I find it very hard to feel sorry for them. In fact, to be honest, I catch myself thinking, They deserved what they got. This hardened attitude disturbs me. Which is why I refuse to latch on to specific reasons why God allowed this to happen in Asia. I'm afraid of how it will affect me.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35955
12/30/04 07:35 PM
12/30/04 07:35 PM
Wendy F  Offline
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Indonesia Needs Help, Death Toll Expected To Exceed 400,000
Thu Dec 30 2004 12:52:01 ET

KUALA LUMPUR, Dec 30 (Bernama) -- The death toll in Acheh, the region worst hit by last Sunday's tsunami, may exceed 400,000 as many affected areas could still not be reached for search and rescue operations, Indonesia's Ambassador to Malaysia Drs H. Rusdihardjo said Thursday.

He said the estimate was based on air surveillance by Indonesian authorities who found no signs of life in places like Meulaboh, Pulau Simeulue and Tapak Tuan while several islands off the west coast of Sumatera had "disappeared".

He said the latest death toll of more than 40,000 in Acheh and northern Sumatera did not take into account the figures from the other areas, especially in the west of the region.

"Aerial surveillance found the town of Meulaboh completely destroyed with only one buiding standing. The building, which belonged to the military, happens to be on a hill," he told reporters after receiving RM1 million in aid for Indonesia's Tsunami Disaster Relief Fund here Thursday.

Rusdihardjo said there were about 150,000 residents in Meulaboh, which was located 150km from the epicentre of the earthquake while Pulau Simeuleu had a population of 76,000.

Ambassador Rusdihardjo said a combination of earthquake and tsunami had left 80 to 100 per cent of infrastructure in Acheh province, such as hospitals, health centres, transport and communication networks and homes, destroyed.

"Looking at the scale of destruction, it's difficult to say when the search and rescue operations can be mounted in all affected areas," he said.
===========================================


Believe me Mike. I can have the attitude that all of those people that traded in children deserved whatever they got, and still have the Christian compassion of knowing the horror and devestation those people went through. I still feel absolutely devastated for the parents that lost children, everyone that has suffered and is still suffering, and all who lost lives.
For those of us who have watched these travesties go on for so long though, it is somewhat good also to see things such as the sex rings interrupted. How many people in the next few months will be visiting child brothels? Not many I hope.

Most people in these areas didn't deserve what they got here, but since when is Satan a respecter of persons? Did my husband deserve to break his neck in that motorcycle accident? Did we deserve to lose our house and property? Did my children deserve to not have a daddy they can run around and play with? No, but we learn to adapt, and we grow and we realize that God has something bigger and better for us down the road. If not here on earth, then in Heaven.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35956
12/30/04 08:05 PM
12/30/04 08:05 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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Good to see you back Wendy! [Smile]

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35957
12/30/04 08:25 PM
12/30/04 08:25 PM
John H.  Offline
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Doug said,
quote:
Neither God or Satan controls weather, storms, disasters...
You couldn't be more mistaken. Plenty of passages have already been quoted here that show the reverse is true.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35958
12/30/04 09:18 PM
12/30/04 09:18 PM
Wendy F  Offline
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Hi Daryl:)

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35959
12/30/04 10:51 PM
12/30/04 10:51 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Thank you, Wendy, for clarifying your feelings about this tragedy. Although I'm not as convinced as you are as to why God permitted it, I am, like you, happy it will slow down the child abuse aspect, at least for awhile. I am also glad you and your family are handling your own troubles in a godly manner. God uses test, trial and temptation as opportunities to showcase His power and praise. How we react and respond to such situations tells for or against His love. Let God be magnified!

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35960
12/31/04 02:22 AM
12/31/04 02:22 AM
Restin  Offline
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Earlier, someone mentioned that the Asian and surrounding nations have had little evangelism to Chrisianity, and that was a reason not to declare them deserving of the tsunami. But maybe God is more concerned about the character of a person rather than the specific religion. It is a universal awareness that its wrong to steal, murder, cheat, abuse children, take someone else's spouse, etc. You see that universal conflict between right and wrong in history and story of all human beings, no matter what the religion. I think of the American Indians, with tribes spread all over America many centuries before any Christian came with the Ten Commandments. They knew the difference between a good person and a bad person. I know Christians are supposed to evangelize the world, but I also sense that a just and honorable God would consider each individual's effort, or lack of effort, to have good character, regardless of which specific religion. Apparently the Asians there had filled up their cup of iniquity by any standard of decency. know this changes the topic too much, but I've wondered if all the many generations of American Indians are lost souls just because Chrisianity didn't reach them for several thousand years, from the Tower of Babel until the 1800's! [Eek!]

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35961
12/31/04 02:22 AM
12/31/04 02:22 AM
Ikan  Offline
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Here is proof positive that the "religious leaders" of the world have no clue as to what happened and why:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=570&e=2&u=/nm/quake_religion_dc

Notice, that Satan is not mentioned, and that God (or usually spelled in the article "god") is the One to blame. The only Bible answer came from an very distant Adventist offshoot, a Jehovah's Witness.

If we Adventists have no more understanding of Him than these people, how can we dare claim to have a message from Him? Could you actually go to the scene and say to a suffering victim. "Well, God is trying to teach you to love Him by killing your entire family."

I doubt if you would surive that interview.

Job was a christian; do not try to make these people into Jobs. Ninety nine percent if not higher know zip about the true Gospel.

If this is not evidence of Satan's hatred of man, I guess we'll need more evidence, huh?

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35962
12/31/04 02:48 AM
12/31/04 02:48 AM
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How frequently we hear of earthquakes and tornadoes, of destruction by fire and flood, with great loss of life and property! Apparently these calamities are capricious outbreaks of disorganized, unregulated forces of nature, wholly beyond the control of man, but in them all God’s purpose may be read. They are among the agencies by which He seeks to arouse men and women to a sense of their danger—PK 277 (c.1914)

I saw four angels who had a work to do on the earth and were on their way to accomplish it. Jesus was clothed with priestly garments. He gazed in pity on the remnant, then raised His hands, and with a voice of deep pity cried, “My blood, Father, My blood, My flood, My blood!” Then I saw an exceeding bright light come from God, who sat upon the great white throne, and was shed all about Jesus. Then I saw an angel with a commission from Jesus, swiftly flying to the four angels who had a work to do on the earth, and waving something up and down in his hand, and crying with a loud voice, “Hold! Hold! Hold! Hold! Until the servants of God are sealed in their foreheads.”

I asked my accompanying angel the meaning of what I heard, and what the four angels were about to do. He said to me that it was God that restrained the powers, and that He gave His angels charge over things on the earth; that the four angels had power from God to hold the four winds, and that they were about to let them go; but while their hands were loosening, and the four winds were about to blow, the merciful eye of Jesus gazed on the remnant that were not sealed, and He raised His hands to the Father and pleaded with Him that He had spilled His blood for them. Then another angel was commissioned to fly swiftly to the four angels and bid them hold, until the servants of God were sealed with the seal of the living God in their foreheads.” EWp.38

The calamities by land and sea, the unsettled state of society, the alarms of war, are portentous. They forecast approaching events of the greatest magnitude. The agencies of evil are combining their forces and consolidating. They are strengthening for the last great crisis. Great changes are soon to take place in our world, and the final movements will be rapid ones---9T 11 (1909)

In the great closing work we shall meet with perplexities that we know not how to deal with, but let us not forget that the three great Powers of heaven are working, that a divine hand is on the wheel, and that God will bring His purposes to pass,--Ev 65 (1902)

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35963
12/31/04 03:27 AM
12/31/04 03:27 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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The death toll is now over 118,000 and rising. [Frown]

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35964
12/31/04 08:16 AM
12/31/04 08:16 AM
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The North State - California
Death toll is now temporarily set at 125,000+ with possibly an equal number dying of disease. Wonder what the end of the world will be like. It will be beyond the news media to track.

******* This part of the post removed as joking is unacceptable in such a serious topic as this - Daryl *****

When weather cameras show an open sea one day and then the next day there is a category 5 hurricane just off Florida or the Carolianas - then wheel know somethin supernatural is happening.

The question is: Is the end of the world a disaster?  -
--Ðøug  - 2004.12.31.0.33.29 PT  -
 -  -  -  -

[ December 31, 2004, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Daryl Fawcett ]

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35965
12/31/04 09:42 AM
12/31/04 09:42 AM
Ikan  Offline
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
This is not a time for jokes and light-heartedness, Doug.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35966
12/31/04 10:07 AM
12/31/04 10:07 AM
Wendy F  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 960
USA
1)Doug that already happened

and

2)Doug, people tolerated that kind of childish joking over on VOAF for some years. Now you've either been asked to leave there and other forums and are trying it here, or you got bored over there. You don't seem to realize that this and other forums are for serious study and outreach to people and comments such as what you just made could quite quickly put off baby christians and those who are searching. Especially those searching for answers in a traumatic time such as this. I'm a member of a depression forum and those people are looking for answers. For some, for the first time they are taking their eyes off of themselves and their own problems and focusing on others and how their problems pale in comparison. They would be disgusted with "christians" if they ran across your comment. I would hope that you would voluntarily amend your comment, or if not, then it would be altered or deleted by the administration simply for the potential harm.

I quite frankly am sooo disappointed in you for acting this way about such a tremendous loss of life. It is so juvenile and maybe you don't know how to handle it any better, but please find help if you need it. This is serious business Doug and these people and the world need your prayers. Not your crude jokes.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35967
12/31/04 03:01 PM
12/31/04 03:01 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
I completely agree with Ikan's and Wendy's responses to that portion of Doug's post, therefore, that portion of Doug's post has been removed.

Joking like that is definitely not acceptable in this topic.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35968
12/31/04 05:12 PM
12/31/04 05:12 PM
debbie  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,116
USA
My husband was in the 9.2 Alaska earthquake as a young boy. It was one of the saddest things that ever happened. Not many were killed but not many lived there.

The earth opened up and swollowed up whatever was there and closed up again, only to open up again, back and forth.

One father and his two little girls ran outside when the earthquake started and he saw his girls swollowed up in the earth. I cannot fathom such heartache and sorrow as so many went through.

And it is the same now over in Asia. These people are hurting so badly. I cannot bear to watch the news or see the pictures--it is just too much!!

My husband and son will be going to India in a few weeks (Feb 8th) to hold evangelistic meetings in a town 50 km from where the tsunami hit in Southern India. Please pray that souls will be convicted and make their decisions. The earthquake/tsunamis could be a part in helping these people see there is life beyond this life.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35969
12/31/04 07:46 PM
12/31/04 07:46 PM
D
Dora  Offline
Charter Member
Active Member 2013
Veteran Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 847
USA
Amen! Debbie, and we know that is what God is longing for also!!

In His Love,
Dora

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35970
01/01/05 01:54 AM
01/01/05 01:54 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
quote:
Originally posted by Ikan:
Here is proof positive that the "religious leaders" of the world have no clue as to what happened and why:

Notice, that Satan is not mentioned, and that God (or usually spelled in the article "god") is the One to blame. The only Bible answer came from an very distant Adventist offshoot, a Jehovah's Witness.


Besides the Jehovas witness, only one christian was quoted. He also didnt accuse God but said "Greek Orthodox Theologian Costas Kyriakides in Cyprus expressed a similar view.

"I personally don't attach any theological significance to this -- I listen to what the scientists say," he said. "God is always the fall guy. We incriminate Him completely unjustly." "

/Thomas

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35971
01/01/05 06:43 AM
01/01/05 06:43 AM
Will  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
Jesus said that the Gospel has to go out into all the world, and then He will come.
God is calling His people in parallel to all the world's events going on i.e. the wickedness of men. People are recognizing that something is going on, and that the end of the world is at hand. As those thoughts enter the billions of minds many of them are turning to God.
While the devil is casting pandemonium and trying to control people with fear, and destroying lives, we see God working miracles and shedding His Light in their paths to lead them to Jesus Christ.
Let's all pray for the evengelistic meetings that Debbie's husband and son will do. God has called them with a Holy calling, and God is glorified by the bearing of much fruit.
God Bless & Happy Sabbath,
Will

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35972
01/01/05 07:14 AM
01/01/05 07:14 AM
D
Doug Meister  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 162
The North State - California
Wendy,
"" 1)Doug that already happenedand
"" 2)Doug, people tolerated that kind of childish joking over on VOAF for some years. Now you've either been asked to leave there and other forums and are trying it here, or you got bored over there. You don't seem to realize that this and other forums are for serious study and outreach to people and comments such as what you just made could quite quickly put off baby christians and those who are searching. Especially those searching for answers in a traumatic time such as this. ""

Since that part of what I said has been removed, no one can see what I said that was so evil, so how can you say anything about it. I dont save what I say so even I dont know what I said. THEREFORE I will not learn what I did that was wrong in the administartion's eyes. I always say whats on my mind whether or not it is a joke. Who can really say how I really feel about anything - perceived joke or not??? IF I was forced to act otherwise - that would put me in a cage or under a forced environment. Isnt forcing the will something of Satan? "Do what I say or die." is something Satan says. That runs counter to my idea of freedom. "Live free or die." is my motto.
--Ðøug  - 2004.12.31.23.06.46 PT

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35973
01/01/05 07:18 AM
01/01/05 07:18 AM
D
Doug Meister  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 162
The North State - California
Daryl,
"" Joking like that is definitely not acceptable in this topic. ""

Joking like what???????? And how do you know it (whatever it was) was a joke??
--Ðøug  - 2004.12.31.23.09.04 PT

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35974
01/01/05 09:16 AM
01/01/05 09:16 AM
Wendy F  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 960
USA
Okay, Doug. Poor taste. Phrase it however you want. The administrator removed it AFTER I said something. I couldn't have commented on it after it was removed now could I?

You shouldn't say everything that comes into your head. You should think, prayerfully consider, and then speak. That is the Christian way. And no it is not Satanic to be restrained. It is Satanic to know no restraint. Unlimited freedom is what Satan promised Eve in Eden and it led to death, not eternal life. "Ye shall not surely die".

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35975
01/01/05 10:51 AM
01/01/05 10:51 AM
D
Doug Meister  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 162
The North State - California
What are you talking about?
--Ðøug  - 2005.1.1.2.50.13 PT

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35976
01/01/05 12:42 PM
01/01/05 12:42 PM
D
Doug Meister  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 162
The North State - California
Accusations were made which can not be proven since they were deleted. I need to live in a free environment not one of supression and no discussion.

It doesnt matter now because I have left this forum. Good bye.
--Doug @ 2005.1.1.4.39.50 PT

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35977
01/01/05 02:18 PM
01/01/05 02:18 PM
Ikan  Offline
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
Thanks Thomas: I think I stopped reading that comment of the Greek's when he mentioned trusting science. I was reading too fast.

It just proves an old theory of mine:
There is nothing more careful as a thinking Swede in the middle of winter!

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35978
01/01/05 02:36 PM
01/01/05 02:36 PM
Ikan  Offline
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
Will stated:

"While the devil is casting pandemonium and trying to control people with fear, and destroying lives, we see God working miracles and shedding His Light in their paths to lead them to Jesus Christ."

Amen! A great example of how God works!

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35979
01/01/05 03:56 PM
01/01/05 03:56 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Oops! Lost another one to die-tech (i.e., using deadly posting techniques that tend to kill participation). See ya later, Doug, I'll miss your colorful icons.

Hey, how about those Yankees? They increased their aid to $350 million dollars! Now that's more like it. Which doesn't include the millions more given by private US donors. Yes, yes, yes, I am also very thankful for what others nations and individuals have given. Thank you Jesus.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35980
01/01/05 05:40 PM
01/01/05 05:40 PM
Restin  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 195
Apopka, Florida, USA
Hey Doug, speaking of freedom and the right to it, yer free to run nekked across the city park too, if it's yer nature to do whatever comes to mind...then suffer the consequences. All squirrels cover yer eyes, and the Littles too, before the white coats get 'im.

Why dontcha shape up instead of shippin' out? You never did tell me how to get your own smilies and pix on the post...i enjoy them too!

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35981
01/01/05 05:52 PM
01/01/05 05:52 PM
Restin  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 195
Apopka, Florida, USA
Doug, I'm so much like you it scares me. God, and Holy Spirit, help us both.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35982
01/01/05 09:20 PM
01/01/05 09:20 PM
A
Andrew Marttinen  Offline
Pastor
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,471
Carleton Place, Ontario, Canad...
One of my parishoners lost two first cousins--one in Sri Lanka and the other in the Maldives. His elderly aunt lost her home.

This Sabbath he shared with our congregation that 150 Adventists are missing in the Sri Lanka area.

One church was meeting with over 100 members inside. The Tsunami wave came during the worship service and wiped them all out to sea.

Several Anglican churches in the area also had young people's programs going on when they were swamped with the sea waters.

I haven't seen these reports on Adventist news sources but they have been presented on CBC Windsor, CFCO/CKSY radio and the Chatham Daily News.

Here is a link to our local newspaper report:

http://www.chathamdailynews.ca/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentid=91875&catname=Local+News

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35983
01/01/05 10:26 PM
01/01/05 10:26 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
Pastor Andrew: Thank you for that sad report pertaining to affected Seventh-day Adventists. I was wondering whether there was any information pertinent to how it affected members of the SDA Church.

Doug: I copied this topic before editing your post that contained words that were in bad taste pertaining to this sad topic. Have you really forgotten what you posted? I will email the unedited version of that post to you and to anybody else that requests it.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35984
01/01/05 11:09 PM
01/01/05 11:09 PM
A
Andrew Marttinen  Offline
Pastor
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,471
Carleton Place, Ontario, Canad...
A female survivour of the terrible train wreck (with 1,500 aboard) in Sri Lanka was an Adventist. She will have quite a story to tell. Another Adventist, however, perished.

Most SDA news sources talk about ADRA. ADRA can't spend its time accounting for and helping Adventists. They have to be shown to be impartial, otherwise they will lose their charitable status. We're getting our news and help from those who, unfortunately, have family members who are affected.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35985
01/03/05 02:31 AM
01/03/05 02:31 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
Here is a link to some pictures:

http://coreykoberg.com/Tsunami/

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35986
01/03/05 03:23 AM
01/03/05 03:23 AM
A
Andrew Marttinen  Offline
Pastor
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,471
Carleton Place, Ontario, Canad...
Some more "inside" information came to me recently.

People in Calle, Sri Lanka, had much of their town saved by an old Dutch fort that separated the waters away from the houses in their town. The waters converged later on, however, and threw all of their force on a bus stop. That is why early news pictures from Sri Lanka show so many busses carried away by the streams of water.

Re: Bay of Bengal - Quake and Flood #35987
01/10/05 09:58 PM
01/10/05 09:58 PM
John H.  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,150
North Carolina, USA
There are some amazing -- almost horrifying -- satellite photos at

http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/1.html

A lot of these photos I've seen already, but the way they're done, it's remarkable. You can click a button to get a before-and-after view instantaneously. Very sobering, especially the pictures of Banda Aceh and the Gleebruk village.

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