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3 Angels Message--- SECOND ANGEL #36718
07/28/01 02:48 AM
07/28/01 02:48 AM
Vincent E MacIsaac  Offline OP
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 163
Eastern Canada, currently resi...
Hello,


Well while we are waiting for the new direction of SDA-TODAY that is developing let us continue with our regular topic discussions.

We are looking at this week the SECOND Angel's Message in the three Angels message.

Verse 8 focus in on the second Angels Message....

REV 14 ---The Proclamations of Three Angels
6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth--to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people-- 7saying with a loud voice, "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water."
8And another angel followed, saying, "Babylon[6] is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."
9Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."
12Here is the patience of the saints; here are those[7] who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me,[8] "Write: "Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on."'
"Yes," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them."



The First Angel dealt with who God was (THE CREATOR) and what He is doing (GIVING AN EVERLASTING GOSPEL). The Second Angel is following suit in the same context but adding a little more to it. In this case a warning.

Why is this angel's message a warning? Who is this Babylon the Angel is talking about? And Why is a Great city named Babylon referred to as a "SHE"? Does it represent something?

Is Babylon a real thing that we need to be concerned about? Why would God send a Angel in the last days to warn His people about this great Babylon? Can we see it in our world today? How powerful is it? How much control over us does it have?

What is it "She" makes the Nations drink? Are they doing that right now? if so how?

Why do you think God is making such an issue out of this to send angels to warn us?

I look forward to you thought of this.

------------------
~VINCE~ IN ~CHRIST~
SDA-TODAY moderator

The Spirit is constantly seeking to draw the attention of men to the great offering that was made on the cross of Calvary, to unfold to the world the love of God, and to open to the convicted soul the precious things of the Scriptures. {AA 52.4}


Re: 3 Angels Message--- SECOND ANGEL #36719
07/28/01 02:52 AM
07/28/01 02:52 AM
Vincent E MacIsaac  Offline OP
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 163
Eastern Canada, currently resi...
Hello Friends,

I know it has not been very busy on this list for some time now. Some of that is my fault. The Summer just seems to be a hard time to sit down at the Computer, if you know what I mean.

Either way we do have a really good topic this week. One I know is of great importance to us in this time we live in. It use to be that all Adventist ever talked about was the three Angles Message. It was or goal. Our focus. And it still should be. It is the reason GOD called this church into existence. I believe it is something to be excited about. How about you?

Last week we looked at God's Identity as it is told in the First Angles Message and His great LOVE (He sent the EVER LASTING GOSPEL). This week in the second angels message we see a bit of a warning

<<<>>

It is a warning Because God Loves us! He Knows the End from the Beginning (Alpha and Omega) and He knows where we are in time. HE WANTS US TO KNOW TOO! But do we really grasp where we are in the Great Time line of God or are we just too comfortable here?

Traditionally Adventist would say Spiritual Babylon is the False Church of Rome. But if we are awake at all we will easily see that infection has spread to all the world. The WHOLE WORD is currently following Rome and willing enslaved to her. it is important we wake up and see this matter for what it is. Babylon is the acceptance of any doctrine or system of belief NOT of God. That has FAR reaching meaning.

<<>>

The Bible Uses the word SHE when it talks of churches and systems of Belief. This is Because the true Church is the Wife to God, the Husband. So who is the false Church a wife to?

<<>>>>

YES!!!! And we seem to be sleeping right thru it. I am not being radical. It's power has nothing over us IF WE SEE IT and ask God to protect us and guide us. Yet to many seem to not even beware of just how real it is. And how much it controls in our world. All the beliefs systems, the great Religions of the world have turned there faces towards ROME. How is it that the LUTHERAN church could now claim the reformation was a mistake? The World eagerly awaits messages about the Pope on issues of morality and Sunday holiness, the Pope meets with Jewish leader, Muslim leader and so on and do we even bat an Eye Brow? Or do we go about our daily lives missing where it is in history we are?

<>

It has all power over us, if we have not already given GOD our lives IN FULL. Is there any part of your life you have not fully given to God? That is the area the evil one will chase after. Understand your encamped... you live smack dab in the middle of Babylon. Surrounded by "the evil one's" belief systems and tools. Don't fool yourself, there is nothing good in this world other then the LIGHT God have given us in the Bible, the SOP and the Church He has set up for this time.

Is it a time for PANIC? NO!!!!!!!!!!! It is a time to return to God. To return to our FIRST LOVE. To turn to God fully and give Him complete rule over our life and LIVE COMPLETELY FOR HIM. By allowing that, we give God Access to intervene in our lives and we become HIS to protect.

<<>>

Yes, every nation, every political power, every social system of the world is knowingly or unknowingly bought into this system. Every single one. Look for Rome's Mark on it. You will see them if you look. The Bible foretold of it!!! "because she has made ALL nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."
Only God's Last day Church is left to stand for truth. Where are you? Where am I for that matter? Have I fully decided and given my life over to God? Am I holding back any part of my life? Do I have false Idols I refuse to give up? WE will all be on one side or another in the end. Where we put our love now MATTERS.

<<<<>>>>

One of my fellow local Elders in my Church said something very to point on this issue a few weeks ago. He was Preaching on EGW's Book of education but it applies here to. He said something to this effect;

"If you were sleeping in a boat on a nice sunny day and it was about to sail right off the nice clam lake into a deadly crushing water fall sure to kill you, would you want a person on the shore to whisper to you, "there is a water fall over there" Or would you want them to SCREAM AND YELL " LOOK OUT THERE IS A DANGEROUS WATER FALL" How much greater is God's love?

I know it has been quite here. And I know is slows down in the summer on this list... but I'd really like to here some thoughts on all this.

Thanks you! Happy Sabbath!

------------------
~VINCE~ IN ~CHRIST~
SDA-TODAY moderator

The Spirit is constantly seeking to draw the attention of men to the great offering that was made on the cross of Calvary, to unfold to the world the love of God, and to open to the convicted soul the precious things of the Scriptures. {AA 52.4}


Re: 3 Angels Message--- SECOND ANGEL #36720
08/01/01 01:20 AM
08/01/01 01:20 AM
Vincent E MacIsaac  Offline OP
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 163
Eastern Canada, currently resi...
WOW! It really has been quiet here! Is there anybody out there at all? I know its summer and that topics have not been as regular as normal but this topic is the hearth and soul of the Adventist message. And nobody has anything to say about the second Angles message and the Proclamations that, "Babylon is fallen and she made the nations drink?"

Perhaps this these word by word analyses form the Church Commentary cd I have snipped below will provide so insights. It has a great description of Babylon being ROME and why. I'd love to here feed back on the commentary.


8. Followed. Gr. akoloutheoµ, "to accompany," "to follow" (see Matt. 19:27, 28; Mark 1:18, where the word has the idea of accompanying Jesus personally). It seems to have both meanings in this text. In point of time the second angel follows the first, but it is also true that the first angel continues his ministry when the second angel joins him. In this sense the second angel’s message accompanies that of the first.

Another angel. Textual evidence attests (cf. p. 10) the inclusion of the word "second." In some manuscripts the word for "second" stands in place of the phrase "another angel"; in others, as an addition to the phrase; still other manuscripts read "a second angel" instead of "another angel."

Saying. The first and third angels’ messages are proclaimed with a "loud voice" (vs. 7, 9). The message concerning the fall of Babylon is later proclaimed with a loud voice (see on ch. 18:1, 2).

Babylon. The ancient, literal city by this name was already largely a desolate ruin in John’s day (see on Isa. 13:19). As with so many other terms and expressions in the Revelation, the significance of this name (see on Acts 3:16) may best be understood in terms of the role of its historical counterpart in OT times (see pp. 867–869; see on Isa. 47:1; Jer. 25:12; 50:1; Eze. 26:13; Rev. 16:12, 16; Additional Note on Chapter 18). The designation "mystery, Babylon" in ch. 17:5 specifically identifies the name as figurative (see on Rom. 11:25; Rev. 1:20; 17:5; cf. on ch. 16:12).

In Babylonian the name BabÐilu (Babel, or Babylon) meant "gate of the gods," but the Hebrews derogatorily associated it with balal, a word in their language meaning "to confuse" (see on Gen. 11:9). The rulers of Babylon doubtless called their city the "gate" of the gods in the sense that they chose to think of it as the place where the gods consorted with men, to order the affairs of earth (see on Judges 9:35; Ruth 4:1; 1 Kings 22:10; Jer. 22:3). The name thus seems to have reflected the claim of the Babylonian kings that they had been commissioned to rule the world by divine mandate (see Vol. II, p. 157; PP 119; see on Gen. 11:4).

Babylon was founded by Nimrod (see on Gen. 10:10; 11:1–9). From the very beginning the city was emblematic of disbelief in the true God and defiance of His will (see on Gen. 11:4–9), and its tower a monument to apostasy, a citadel of rebellion against Him. The prophet Isaiah identifies Lucifer as the invisible king of Babylon (see on Isa. 14:4, 12–14). In fact, it would appear that Satan designed to make Babylon the center and agency of his master plan to secure control of the human race, even as God purposed to work through Jerusalem (see Vol. IV, pp. 26–30). Thus, throughout OT times, the two cities typified the forces of evil and good at work in the world. The founders of Babylon aspired to set up a government entirely independent of God, and had He not intervened, they would eventually have succeeded in banishing righteousness from the earth (PP 123; cf. on Dan. 4:17). For this reason God saw fit to destroy the tower and to scatter its builders (see on Gen. 11:7, 8). A period of temporary success was followed by more than a millennium of decline and subjection to other nations (see Vol. I, pp. 136, 137; Vol. II, p. 92; see on Isa. 13:1; Dan. 2:37).

When Nebuchadnezzar II rebuilt Babylon it became one of the wonders of the ancient world (see Additional Note on Dan. 4). His plan to make his kingdom universal and eternal (see on Dan. 3:1; 4:30) was a success to the extent that, in splendor and power, the new Babylonian Empire surpassed its predecessors (see Vol. II, pp. 92–94; see on chs. 2:37, 38; 4:30). However, it also became haughty and cruel, (see Ed 176). It conquered God’s people and threatened with defeat His purpose for them as a nation. In a dramatic series of events God humbled Nebuchadnezzar and secured the submission of his will (see Vol. IV, pp. 751, 752). But his successors refused to humble themselves before God (see Dan. 5:18–22), and eventually the kingdom was weighed in the balances of heaven, found wanting, and its mandate revoked by the decree of the divine Watcher (see on Dan. 5:26–28). Later Babylon became one of the capitals of the Persian Empire, but it was partly destroyed by Xerxes (cf. Vol. III, pp. 459, 460). Over the centuries the city gradually lost more and more of its importance and eventually, toward the close of the 1st century a.d., virtually ceased to exist (see on Isa. 13:19; Rev. 18:21).

Ever since the fall of ancient Babylon Satan has sought, through one world power after another, to control the world, and would probably long since have succeeded had it not been for repeated instances of divine intervention (see on Dan. 2:39–43). Undoubtedly his most nearly successful attempt to subvert the church has been through the papal apostasy of the Middle Ages (see Vol. IV, p. 837; see on Dan. 7:25). But God intervened to prevent the success of each subsequent threat to the ultimate accomplishment of His purposes (see Rev. 12:5, 8, 16), and the nations have never been able to "cleave" together (see on Dan. 2:43). Evil is inherently divisive. However, near the end of time Satan will be permitted to achieve what appears, briefly, to be success (see on Rev. 16:13, 14, 16; 17:12–14).

Apparently toward the close of the 1st century a.d. Christians were already referring to the city and empire of Rome by the cryptic title Babylon (see on 1 Peter 5:13). By that time the once magnificent literal city of Babylon lay, almost, if not altogether, in ruins, an uninhabited waste, and thus a graphic illustration of the impending fate of mystical Babylon. The Jews were again in exile under the merciless hand of Rome (see Vol. V, pp. 69–80; Vol. VI, p. 87), even as they had once been exiled by Babylon, and Christians also experienced repeated sporadic persecution at her hand (see Vol. VI, pp. 61, 83, 84, 87). Among Jews and Christians alike, Babylon thus became an appropriate and incriminating term to describe imperial Rome.

During the early Christian centuries the cryptic designation Babylon for the city and empire of Rome appears commonly in both Jewish and Christian literature. For instance, Book V of the Sibylline Oracles, a pseudepigraphical Jewish production dating from about a.d. 125 (see Vol. V, p. 89), gives what purports to be a prophecy of the fate of Rome closely parallel to the description of that of mystical Babylon in the Revelation. Speaking of Rome as a "wicked city" that loves "magic," indulges in "adulteries," and has a "bloodthirsty heart and a godless mind," and observing that "many faithful saints of the Hebrews have perished" because of her, the writer predicts her eventual desolation: "In widowhood shalt thou sit beside thy banks. … But thou hast said, I am unique, and none shall bring ruin on me. But now God … shall destroy thee and all of thine" (vs. 37–74; R. H. Charles, The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament, vol. 2, p. 400; cf. Rev. 18:5–8). In 2 Baruch, another pseudepigraphical work of the 1st or 2d century a.d., the name Babylon is used of Rome in the same way as in the Revelation (ch. 11:1; Charles, op. cit., p. 486). Similarly, the writer of the Jewish Midrash Rabbah, on S. of Sol. 1:6, says, "They called the place Rome Babylon" (Soncino ed., p. 60). Tertullian, who lived at the close of the second century, specifically declares that the term Babylon in the Apocalypse refers to the capital city of imperial Rome (Against Marcion iii. 13; Answer to the Jews 9; see also Irenaeus Against Heresies v. 26. 1). Among the Jews of early Christian times Edom was another cryptic designation for Rome (see Midrash Rabbah, on S. of Sol. 1:6, p. 60; also Talmud Makkoth 12a, Soncino ed., p. 80).

Babylon, both literal and mystical, has thus long been recognized as the traditional enemy of God’s truth and people. As used in the Revelation the name is symbolic of all apostate religious organizations and their leadership, from antiquity down to the close of time (see on chs. 17:5; 18:24). A comparison of the many passages of the OT where the sins and fate of literal Babylon are set forth at length, with those in the Revelation descriptive of mystical Babylon, makes evident the appropriateness of the figurative application of the name (see on Isa. 47:1; Jer. 25:12; 50:1; Rev. 16:12–21; 17; 18; see Additional Note on Chapter 18). A perusal of these and other passages reveals the importance, also, of a thorough study of the OT with respect to literal Babylon as a background for understanding the import of NT passages relating to mystical Babylon.

Is fallen, is fallen. Textual evidence may be cited (cf. p. 10) for the omission of the second "is fallen." The passage seems to echo Isa. 21:9, where in the LXX textual evidence is divided between reading "is fallen" once or twice. The Hebrew repeats the term. Repetition lends emphasis to the message. Babylon is a comprehensive term that John employs to describe all religious bodies and movements that have fallen away from the truth. This fact requires us to view this "fall" as progressive and cumulative.

This prophecy of the fall of Babylon finds its last-day fulfillment in the departure of Protestantism at large from the purity and simplicity of the gospel (see on Rev. 14:4). This message was first preached by the advent movement known as Millerism, in the summer of 1844, and was applied to the churches that rejected the first angel’s message concerning the judgment (see on v. 7). The message will have increasing relevance as the end draws near, and will meet its complete fulfillment with the union of the various religious elements under the leadership of Satan (see on chs. 13:12–14; 17:12–14). The message of ch. 18:2–4 announces the complete downfall of Babylon and calls upon God’s people who are scattered throughout the various religious bodies comprising Babylon, to separate from them.

That great city. The adjective "great" is applied to Babylon consistently throughout the book of Revelation (see chs. 16:19; 17:5, 18; 18:2, 10, 21).

All nations. The universal nature of the apostasy is here described. The substitution of human laws for the laws of God and the enforcement of religious decrees by the state will become universal (see on ch. 13:8; cf. 6T 18, 19, 395; 7T 141).

Drink. A figure describing the acceptance of the false teachings and policies of Babylon. Coercion is suggested in the phrase "made all nations drink." Religious elements will bring pressure to bear upon the state to enforce their decrees.

Wine of the wrath. The figure is probably borrowed from Jer. 25:15, where Jeremiah is bidden to "take the wine cup of this fury …, and cause all the nations … to drink it." But wrath is not Babylon’s object in offering the wine to the various nations. She contends that drinking of her wine will bring peace to nations (see on Rev. 13:12). However, the drinking of it brings down on men the wrath of God.

Some suggest that the word here translated "wrath" (thumos) should be rendered "passion." The passage could then be translated, "she has caused all nations to drink the wine of her passionate immorality" (cf. RSV). However, elsewhere in the Revelation thumos seems to have the meaning "anger," "wrath," and that meaning should probably be adopted here also.

Fornication. A figure of the illicit connection between the church and the world or between the church and the state. The church should be married to her Lord, but when she seeks the support of the state, she leaves her lawful spouse. By her new connection she commits spiritual fornication. Compare on Eze. 16:15; James 4:4

------------------
~VINCE~ IN ~CHRIST~
SDA-TODAY moderator

The Spirit is constantly seeking to draw the attention of men to the great offering that was made on the cross of Calvary, to unfold to the world the love of God, and to open to the convicted soul the precious things of the Scriptures. {AA 52.4}


Re: 3 Angels Message--- SECOND ANGEL #36721
08/02/01 03:03 AM
08/02/01 03:03 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Is it true that Babylon is fallen? If so, then why hasn't the Lord returned? What must happen in order for the second angels' message to be true today?

Re: 3 Angels Message--- SECOND ANGEL #36722
08/03/01 05:06 PM
08/03/01 05:06 PM
Vincent E MacIsaac  Offline OP
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 163
Eastern Canada, currently resi...
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
Is it true that Babylon is fallen? If so, then why hasn't the Lord returned? What must happen in order for the second angels' message to be true today?

WHAT A GREAT QUESTION MIKE!!!!

One I was planning on writing about this week and just have not had time yet. Thanks for asking such an important question!


It is KEY, that we see the second Angel message starts out yelling, BABYLON IS FALLEN, BABYLON IS FALLEN. God wants us to know that even if we do face a deadly foe, that foe is DEFEATED!!!!!

When? Well it has been defeated since Jesus died on the cross and was raised again unto life!!!!!

The Good news: Our foe is Defeated and as such it can have no power over you if you realize it is defeated and put your TRUST and Care in to the winner, Christ Jesus!!

The Bad news: Too many do not know the TRUE FACT Babylon is Fallen, and as Babylon falls it seeks to take as many as it can down with it. And that is why Jesus has not came yet!!!! To many of His people, His Loved ones are going down with the ship!!!!!! He wants them saved too! We who know the message need to be life guards and go get His people! We need to be proclaiming the EVERLASTING GOSPEL and calling out to his people to COME OUT.

Yes Babylon is defeated, but even as a defeated foe it is taking hostages down with it. Jesus is NOT coming back just yet (soon and very soon) but right now, this very day, this very moment there is still an open window for God;s people to do a work (in his power) and call his people out of the sinking boat. we don't know how long this will last.

What we do and why we do it can make all the difference. God seeks to use us in His work. He is the Head we are the body.

This Church has a message to proclaim!!!!

------------------
~VINCE~ IN ~CHRIST~
SDA-TODAY moderator

The Spirit is constantly seeking to draw the attention of men to the great offering that was made on the cross of Calvary, to unfold to the world the love of God, and to open to the convicted soul the precious things of the Scriptures. {AA 52.4}


Re: 3 Angels Message--- SECOND ANGEL #36723
08/03/01 05:16 PM
08/03/01 05:16 PM
Vincent E MacIsaac  Offline OP
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 163
Eastern Canada, currently resi...
There has been some interesting thoughts shared on the email version of SDA-TODAY that i would like to share with you all.

Below is some snips of a conversation i was having with some one over there.

()()()()()
here they are
()()()()()


<<<>>

Excellent point!!!!!!! Well said. 1844 really marks the beginning of the end. The call to the Anti-typical day of atonement. But God has not only called us to repentance and to make ourselves right. NO, he has call for more. He has called us to BE the three angles message. To go out and warn the world. To call people out (of her). Since 1844 God really has done miracles to raise up a church to do this work. The problem is to often "we" drag our heels when God wants us to be racing to the finish line. Why? Revelation tells us we have lost out first LOVE and became luke warm. Solution: We need to become totally dependant of JESUS CHRIST once again, and stop trying to do things in our own strength!

<<>>

Like I say, Your thoughts are always valid and thought provoking. And at the core of this thought I do agree. JESUS SHOULD BE THE MAIN EMPHASIS!!! It has to be. If Jesus is not then nothing works. That is why before Babylon is mentioned by the second angel. The first Angel lets us know who the real GOD is and whom we Worship! Jesus is what this is all about. He has given us a EVERLASTING GOSPEL. That is good news!!!!!

However the problem is we do on some level have to know who and what Babylon is. Why? Well God is calling us out... you have to realize your in something to know you need to come out. It is parallel with you have to know your a sinner to know you need a savior. One quick example, My Grandmother who is now at rest, Was a devote catholic and loved Jesus with her whole heart. But she believed the lies about Him her faith taught her. Why? She did not know any better or whom it was she was believing! True she knew Jesus, and had a saving relationship with him no doubt, but she was still in the devil's sway and confusion. That was NOT God's desire for her. If she had understood would she of not of come out? At least she would of had the opportunity.

Secondly, We need to know whom Babylon is because it carries with it a FALSE JESUS. What the occult world is looking for and calls the Maitreya. The one who tries to take the place on earth as the really Jesus! And I kid you not the world is being set up to accept him right now. To the Catholics and Christians, a pope, to the Jews the long awaited messiah, and so forth in every world religion.

Yes, it is true to say that if we know the really Jesus we won't be fooled!!!! That is in fact the Key!!! And if we know the real Jesus we will take his council and be ready, waiting, watching, and above all busy doing our Father's work crying out to this dying world. If we are not that then how well do we know the real? Perhaps we need to know Him closer. Jesus forwarnd that the last days had been shortened as so the very elect would not be deceived!!! The devil is not playing games here. And God's Warning to the world in the second angles message is not a game either. It is time folks. Time to get out of our lukewarm relationships and get more closer to our Jesus then ever before! The point is not to be sacred. God, does not want us to fear, what He wants is us to KNOW THE DANGER and to come out, ineo the FULL solution, total dependence on CHRIST JESUS. Are you there? Is your and my relationship with Jesus the ROCK OF AGES, what it should be? That is what we need to asking ourselves! And then we will not drag our feet any longer, we will gladly do what God is calling us to do since 1844 Preach this message to a deceived and dark world, and Christ will come, Amen!

------------------
~VINCE~ IN ~CHRIST~
SDA-TODAY moderator

The Spirit is constantly seeking to draw the attention of men to the great offering that was made on the cross of Calvary, to unfold to the world the love of God, and to open to the convicted soul the precious things of the Scriptures. {AA 52.4}



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by Rick H. 04/13/24 10:19 AM
A Second American Civil War?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:39 PM
A.I. - The New God?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:34 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 07:10 PM
Are we seeing a outpouring of the Holy Spirit?
by dedication. 04/01/24 07:48 PM
Time Is Short!
by ProdigalOne. 03/29/24 10:50 PM
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