I don't mean to change the subject, and maybe this should be in a different place, but didn't know where to post this: From having many temp jobs to supplement my art career, I am with a lot of different people out there in the world. I'm finding that many, many people besides us SDA are seeing the signs of the end and believing Jesus is coming. Many have read the books and seen the movie of "Left Behind" series. I'm so upset that many of the non-SDA churches have met this interest with a whole different endtime schedule than what is Biblical to me as one raised SDA. The seven years of the 2300 yrs has been changed from the ministry of Christ to be tagged onto the end, and become seven years of The Tribulation where those "left Behind" by the rapture have a so-called second chance. Then when Christ comes, those churches believe He descends down on Jerusalem to stay here for the millenium and make things better instead of taking us all to heaven. I feel it does make a difference which way people believe because the truth always matters. Does anyone think what way you believe about this is important?

The Bible reference below makes it clear that no prophecy of the Bible is of any private interpretation:

quote:

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2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

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False teachers have definitely presented a false doctrine such as has been presented in the movie, Left Behind, and has deceived many in that it has many followers of this false doctrine.

And yes, the 70th week of the 70 weeks prophecy has been the victim of a 2,000 or more years gap, which is inconsistent with any time prophecies of the Bible. It is interesting to note that the 70th week of this prophecy began when Christ was baptized in the Jordan River by John the Baptist. The midst of this 70th week was fulfilled when Christ was crucified on the Cross of Calvary. The 70th week ended when Stephen was stoned sealing Israel's rejection of the Messiah. So, what has already been fulfilled has been falsely separated from the 70 week prophecy and gapped from the 69th week into a yet undermined future.

Yes, sequence is important, however, the correct interpretation of prophecy, by the Bible itself, is even more important.

Restin,

The point of Prophecy and the study of endtime events is to preach the "present truth of the hour" EGW White writes...

Different periods in the history of the church have each been marked by the development of some special truth, adapted to the necessities of God's people at that time. Every new truth has made its way against hatred and opposition; those who were blessed with its light were tempted and tried. The Lord gives a special truth for the people in an emergency. Who dare refuse to publish it? He commands His servants to present the last invitation of mercy to the world. They cannot remain silent, except at the peril of their souls."

The purpose of these messages is to "give the Flock" meat in due season. Early Writings 63, Mat.24:45. Hebrews. 5;12. She writes again,

"the flock is dying for lack of present truth" Early Writings, 49. In 1888, materials, She writes "what was truth 20 years ago, is truth but is not present truth." page 133.

The study of prophecy is the receiving of present truth. However the negatives of these statements apply mostly to the SDA church, its refusal to advance with the light, and it's persecution of those who chose to do so. And it's failure to examine the scriptures with those they do not approve of, taking security in the opinions of the religious leaders or writers of the day. In such cases the majority go backward to Egypt, (the world) 5 Testamonies, 217, and unknowingly are lost because the have fallen into the trap of the Angel to Laodicea.

Whitlie

Daryl,

If what you say is true concerning the importance of understanding the sequence of end-time events, then could you provide an explanation as to why the SDA church chooses to interpret prophecy out of sequence?

I refer specifically to the "Seven Seals" of Revelation 5-9 and also to the interpretation of events depicted in Revelation 14-16.

These events are depicted in a very specific sequence, but the traditional SDA interpretation changes the sequence.

Example: The sixth seal depicts the Second Coming of Christ and the Seventh Seal depicts the Seven Trumpets(disasters) to befall the wicked. If these prophecies are interpreted in sequence then the correct interpretation would be that Christ returns and rescues the saints and leaves the wicked behind who then suffer the consequences of the Seven Disasters(Trumpets)

This same sequence is also presented in Revelation 14-16.....In Revelation 14 the Great Harvest takes place and the saints are redeemed from this earth and the wicked are "cast into the winepress of the wrath of God". In chapter 15-16 the "wrath of God" is depicted as the "Seven Plagues".

To interpret this prophecy in sequence we must therefore understand that the Seven Plagues fall upon this earth AFTER the Second Coming and not BEFORE the Second Coming as is interpreted by the SDA Church.

Please explain?

Bob, please say more. I am interested in why you believe the 144,000 sealed saints are translated before the seven trumpets, before the seven plagues and before the arrival of Jesus. The following passages seem to imply some of the saved come out of great tribulation:

Revelation
7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

The text above says some of God's people come out of great tribulation and that they will hunger and thirst no more or suffer heat and sun light. This sounds similar to the trumpets and plagues.

Revelation
9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

In the midst of the fifth trumpet it appears that the sealed saints are protected against the locust.

Revelation
13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

This text implies not everyone is willing to receive the MOB. If the saints are gone by this point in prophecy why would the beasts have trouble enforcing the MOB?

Revelation
14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

This text implies some saints do not receive the MOB. But if there are no saints during this time period how can this be true?

Revelation
15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous [are] thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true [are] thy ways, thou King of saints.

This text plainly says some saints refused the MOB.

Revelation
20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This text says some saints were killed because they refused to receive the MOB.

1 Thessalonians
4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

This text says some saints will be alive on earth and translated with the resurrected saints when Jesus arrives. This implies they where here during the seven plagues.

Mike,

Per our previous discussions, I had explained that my belief is that the 144,000 were the saints resurrected at the same time as Jesus. These saints ascended to Heaven with Jesus. They were the "firstfruits of the redeemed" and "from the 12 tribes of Israel".

In Revelation 7 John is shown two distinct groups of people who will be in Heaven. He sees the 144,000 and the Great Multitude. The verses 14-16 are a description of the Great Multitude...not the 144,000. The fact that it states that they will "suffer heat and sun light no more" does not clearly imply that they were on earth during the time of the plagues.

Why doesn't it also specifically state that they will not suffer some of the other effects of the other plagues? The Bible clearly states that there will be no sun in Heaven, but that God will be the sole source of light.

Revelation 9:1-4 describes the outpouring of the fifth plague. The angel is commanded not to hurt the grass or trees, but only those individuals who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. This should be fairly easy to understand in that the only humans remaining on the earth at this time will be the wicked, which will have the "Mark of the Beast" and not the "Seal of God" upon their foreheads.

I find it of some significance that the "saints" are not mentioned as being on this earth during the outpouring of these plagues.

Revelation 13:15-17 and 14:9-12 depict events that take place prior to the Second Coming/Great Harvest of Revelation 14:14-20.

Of course the saints will distinguish themselves by refusing to accept the "Mark of the Beast" imposed by the Second Beast of Revelation 13 which happens prior to the Second Coming and the outpouring of the Seven Last Plagues. As presented in Revelation 15, their reward will be that they are redeemed from this earth.

A special note: You will notice that the saints are seen as being in Heaven PRIOR to the outpouring of the seven plagues.

Mike, I feel more assured in understanding the sequential presentation of the prophetic events of Revelation rather than trying to understand any "implied" sequence.

I would encourage you to read thru Revelation again, with an objective mind, and see if you can discern the clear sequence of events that it presents.

Is Revelation written in sequence? Or does it jump around, or does it cover some main issues or what? I am reading it right now chapter by chapter (Starting Ch.11 right now), and what seems sequential are the trumpets and the seals.
God Bless,
Will

Will,

There are some clearly outline sequences in the prophetic events depicted in Revelation.

First you have the messages to the 7 churches which can be interpreted as a historical sequence of the Christian church throughout the past 2000+ years.

Next you have the 7 seals which show a clear sequence of events starting with the 4 horsemen(Seals 1-4), the martyrdom of the saints(Seal 5), the Second Coming(Seal 6)(with an inserted depiction of the saints in Heaven: Rev. 7) and finally the 7th Seal, which is the 7 Trumpets or disasters that will befall the earth(Rev 8-11).

In Revelation 12 begins a new sequence of events starting with the birth of Christ and the beginnings of the Christian church and the persecution that they suffered. Revelation 13 depicts the rise of the two SuperPowers(Roman Empire and United States)and the influence that they will exert over this earth. Revelation 14 depicts the final warning messages given to this earth just prior to the Second Coming(Great Harvest). Revelation 15-16 depicts the seven plagues/disasters that will befall this earth after the Second Coming. Revelation 17-19 depicts the judgment that will befall Babylon and the Beast during the years following the Second Coming. It also depicts the final destruction of the Wicked. Revelation 20 depicts what is happening to Satan during this same period. Finally, Revelation 21-22 depicts the Third Coming of Christ with the Saints as they return to this earth to inhabit it throughout eternity.

There separate sequencial presentations presenting three historical perspectives leading up to the "End of Time".

When you understand the sequences depicted in Revelation you can begin to see a much different picture than what is being painted by traditional SDA/Protestant interpretations.