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"Virgins": asleep or awake? #42701
07/07/05 10:49 PM
07/07/05 10:49 PM
Ikan  Offline OP
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
Good topic: What are the symptoms of a sleeping virgin and the tokens of an awake virgin?

I propose the topic begin on the attributes of sleeping/wakefulness instead of the common process of proving who the virgins are; we can assume that they are us.

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42702
07/07/05 10:55 PM
07/07/05 10:55 PM
Will  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
I would like to add 1 more distinction to these 10 virgins, and that is the fact that some were diligent in preparation i.e. extra oil, and some did not prepare.
God Bless,
Will

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42703
07/08/05 12:39 AM
07/08/05 12:39 AM
Ikan  Offline OP
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
Excellent point, amigo fiel! The "oil" of course is the Holy Spirit.

One must be awake in order see oil is needed, go and buy it and then fill the lamp, right? Sleepers may dream of doing this, but is not reality.

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42704
07/08/05 01:35 AM
07/08/05 01:35 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
The awake virgins are aware of the situation, which I believe translates into knowing what the important issues are and being able to recognize when important things are happening. The sleeping virgins are clueless about such matters.

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42705
07/08/05 03:02 AM
07/08/05 03:02 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The same announcement woke up all ten virgins. They did exactly the same thing when they awoke, namely, they trimmed their lamps. However, the five foolish virgins' discovered there wasn't enough oil to turn their lamps up brighter. They immediately sought to solve the problem by first asking the five wise virgins for some extra oil, and then by running off to buy some more.

Evidently their dimming lamps provided enough light to go and buy more oil, but they weren't bright enough to accompany the bridal procession. Apparently there was a certain standard of light that had to be met. But the oil they ended up getting didn't produce the same light, and they were, therefore, denied entrance at the door.

When I was in the military we used different shades of light, by using certain filters, to communicate with one another. One time my buddy lost the filter we were supposed to use to make contact with special forces, so we improvised. Boy, it sure landed us on a heap of trouble. It doesn't pay to use a light of your own kindling.

COL 405
In distress they appeal to their wiser companions saying, "Give us of your oil; for our lamps are going out." (Margin.) {COL 405.2}

Matthew
5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Isaiah
50:10 Who [is] among you that feareth the LORD, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh [in] darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the LORD, and stay upon his God.
50:11 Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass [yourselves] about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks [that] ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42706
07/08/05 06:55 AM
07/08/05 06:55 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Ewall:
The awake virgins are aware of the situation, which I believe translates into knowing what the important issues are and being able to recognize when important things are happening. The sleeping virgins are clueless about such matters.

Its not nessessarily awareness or alarm that separates the awake from the asleap but action. The awake will act on alarm.

/Thomas

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42707
07/08/05 07:16 AM
07/08/05 07:16 AM
Will  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
Somethings different though. There was a midnight cry, and all 10 virgins awoke, but only half came prepared.
God Bless,
Will

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42708
07/08/05 11:15 AM
07/08/05 11:15 AM
Cheri Fritz  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 278
Gloversville, NY, USA
Greetings,

quote:
The two classes of watchers [in the parable of the ten virgins] represent the two classes who profess to be waiting for their Lord. They are called virgins because they profess a pure faith. By the lamps is represented the Word of God. . . . The oil is a symbol of the Holy Spirit. . . .
In the parable, all the ten virgins went out to meet the bridegroom. All had lamps and vessels for oil. For a time there was seen no difference between them. So with the church that lives just before Christ's second coming. All have a knowledge of the Scriptures. All have heard the message of Christ's near approach, and confidently expect His appearing. But as in the parable, so it is now. A time of waiting intervenes, faith is tried; and when the cry is heard, "Behold, the Bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him," many are unready. . . . They are destitute of the Holy Spirit. Without the Spirit of God a knowledge of His Word is of no avail. The theory of truth, unaccompanied by the Holy Spirit, cannot quicken the soul or sanctify the heart. . . . Without the enlightenment of the Spirit, men will not be able to distinguish truth from error, and they will fall under the masterful temptations of Satan. . . .God's Amazing Grace, pp. 214.2-214.3.

All the virgins are alike, they are all fruitful and gathered into one place. Yet the difference between the virgins is the cultivation of their hearts.

All the virgins are actively gathering together for the purpose of the pure present truth which is delivered by the power of the Holy Spirit.

They are patiently waiting. But what makes them virgins?

The Sabbath, but how can the Sabbath santify the soul?
quote:
"All through the week we are to have the Sabbath in mind and be making preparation to keep it according to the commandment. We are not merely to observe the Sabbath as a legal matter. We are to understand its spiritual bearing upon all the transactions of life. All who regard the Sabbath as a sign between them and God, showing that He is the God who sanctifies them, will represent the principles of His government. They will bring into daily practice the laws of His kingdom. Daily it will be their prayer that the sanctification of the Sabbath may rest upon them. Every day they will have the companionship of Christ and will exemplify the perfection of His character. Every day their light will shine forth to others in good works." Vol. 6, Testimonies for the Church, pp. 353-354.

"In all that pertains to the success of God’s work, the very first victories are to be won in the home life. Here the preparation for the Sabbath must begin. Throughout the week let parents remember that their home is to be a school in which their children shall be prepared for the courts above. Let their words be right words. No words which their children should not hear are to escape their lips. Let the spirit be kept free from irritation. Parents, during the week live as in the sight of a holy God, who has given you children to train for Him. Train for Him the little church in your home, that on the Sabbath all may be prepared to worship in the Lord’s sanctuary. Each morning and evening present your children to God as His blood-bought heritage. Teach them that it is their highest duty and privilege to love and serve God." Vol. 6, Testimonies for the Church, p. 354;1.



I would like to suggest that we ought to never assume that we are the 10 virgins. But rather ask the Lord to prove the reigns of our hearts.

I would like to say, that we dearly need to learn from Israel of old. They were proud of who they were, they announced to the world of who they were. They said it so loudly and often too.

The sleeping virgin may only have one thing that they put before the Lord, they may have more than one thing, but it is shown that they will love something more than the Lord. This is why they could not fully prepare for the Lord and have the measure of oil needed to travel through.

The awake virgin is faithfully relying on God and denying self.

Can we visibly see the difference? Well, the virgins are all pure because of truth. They are fruitful and appear all as wheat. None but God can distinguish the tare unless the tare shows its fruit, then you know it is not true. NOTE: Seeing a tare also means that this is an open sin.

So here is a question for you: Will the virgins have open sins before the congregation?

Your Sister in Christ Jesus,
Cheri Fritz

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42709
07/08/05 11:34 AM
07/08/05 11:34 AM
Cheri Fritz  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 278
Gloversville, NY, USA
Just would like to clarify one of my sentences with regards to sleeping virgins.

I said:
quote:
The sleeping virgin may only have one thing that they put before the Lord, they may have more than one thing, but it is shown that they will love something more than the Lord. This is why they could not fully prepare for the Lord and have the measure of oil needed to travel through.
It should read:
The sleeping virgins are comfortable in pure present truth. The one's in which are not prepared may only have one thing that they put before the Lord, they may have more than one thing, but it is shown that they will love something more than the Lord. This is why they could not fully prepared for the Lord and have the measure of oil needed to travel through.

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42710
07/09/05 03:29 AM
07/09/05 03:29 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Old Tom: The awake virgins are aware of the situation, which I believe translates into knowing what the important issues are and being able to recognize when important things are happening. The sleeping virgins are clueless about such matters.

Will: Its not nessessarily awareness or alarm that separates the awake from the asleap but action. The awake will act on alarm.

Tom: Action without knowledge won't get anywhere, will it? And true knowledge implies the love of God dwelling in the heart which motivates to action. We are justified by faith which works by love.

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42711
07/09/05 03:58 AM
07/09/05 03:58 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
What was it that barred the door to the foolish virgins when they finally arrived with oil in their lamps?

BTW, the distinction "awake" and "asleep" isn't as accurate as wise and foolish. All ten were asleep and then awake.

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42712
07/08/05 05:50 PM
07/08/05 05:50 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,126
Nova Scotia, Canada
Couldn't the 10 sleeping virgins also represent the condition of the Laodicean church of Revelation 3:14-22?

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42713
07/08/05 06:40 PM
07/08/05 06:40 PM
razorren  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 275
Bahamas
Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42714
07/08/05 06:49 PM
07/08/05 06:49 PM
Will  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
Some were prepared in advance andthe other 5 were not. I see an object lesson in that particular piece. Does anyone else see that?
Maybe what barred the foolish virgins was the fact that they figured they needed to get more oil after the midnight cry?? Interesting indeed.
God Bless,
Will

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42715
07/09/05 11:53 AM
07/09/05 11:53 AM
Cheri Fritz  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 278
Gloversville, NY, USA
Sorry my little one came in an hit me the post and had me send this before I finished...below you will see the finished and I did not desire to supply a duplicate. I hope you will forgive the error.
Cheri Fritz

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42716
07/09/05 12:19 PM
07/09/05 12:19 PM
Cheri Fritz  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 278
Gloversville, NY, USA
Greetings,

quote:
"The class represented by the foolish virgins are not hypocrites. They have a regard for the truth, they are attracted to those who believe the truth; but they have not yielded themselves to the Holy Spirit’s working. They have not fallen upon the Rock Christ Jesus, and permitted their old nature to be broken up. This class are represented also by the stony-ground hearers. They receive the word with readiness, but they fail of assimilating its principles. Its influence is not abiding. The Spirit works upon man’s heart, according to his desire and consent implanting in him a new nature; but the class represented by the foolish virgins have been content with a superficial work. They do not know God. . . They have not studied His character; they have not held communion with Him; therefore they do not know how to trust, how to look and live. Their service to God degenerates into a form." Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 411:1.
quote:
"Lingering near the bride’s house are ten young women robed in white. Each carries a lighted lamp and a small flagon for oil. All are anxiously watching for the appearance of the bridegroom. But there is a delay. Hour after hour passes; the watchers become weary and fall asleep. At midnight the cry is heard, ‘Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.’ The sleepers, suddenly awaking, spring to their feet. They see the procession moving on, bright with torches and glad with music. They hear the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride. The ten maidens seize their lamps and begin to trim them, in haste to go forth. But five have neglected to fill their flasks with oil. They did not anticipate so long a delay, and they have not prepared for the emergency. In distress they appeal to their wiser companions saying, ‘Give us of your oil; for our lamps are going out.’ (margin.) But the waiting five, with their freshly trimmed lamps, have emptied their flagons. They have no oil to spare, and they answer, ‘Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.’

"While they went to buy, the procession moved on, and left them behind. The five with lighted lamps joined the throng and entered the house with the bridal train, and the door was shut. When the foolish virgins reached the banqueting hall, they received an unexpected denial. The master of the feast declared, ‘I know you not.’ They were left standing without, in the empty street, in the blackness of the night." Christ’s Object Lessons, pp. 405:1-406:1.

What is the difference between the sleeping virgin classes?
quote:
"‘They all slumbered and slept;’ one class in unconcern and abandonment of their faith, the other class patiently waiting till clearer light should be given." Great Controversy, p. 394:1.
The 10 virgins are:

Gathered together in pure present truth
They all appear to be sanctified
They all are sleeping
When awakened five of them did not prepare for an added journey. But five of them prepared for the future regardless of what they learned.

The message of Laodicea is the worst condition to be, but there is hope. Yet in this message it is not suggesting that their are open sins being committed and unresolved in God's Holy House and Holy Priesthood.
quote:
(Matt. 25:1-12.) Hope for the Laodiceans.--[Rev. 3:15-17 quoted.] Yet the case of those who are rebuked is not a hopeless one; it is not beyond the power of the great Mediator. He says: "I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Though the professed followers of Christ are in a deplorable condition, they are not yet in so desperate a strait as were the foolish virgins whose lamps were going out, and there was no time in which to replenish their vessels with oil. When the bridegroom came, those that were ready went in with him to the wedding; but when the foolish virgins came, the door was shut, and they were too late to obtain an entrance. 7 BC, p. 966.6.
NOTE: We should not use the lesson of the wheat and the tares to consider the Laodicean condition is where sin abounds openly.

The lesson of the wheat and the tares has often been relied on to share that open sins are in the church and we should not remove them. But if we were to actually study the grain -- the wheat and the tare (we would learn that they) both look alike until the tare bears up its fruit. At that time there is a clear sight that the tare is no longer a hidden member of wrong doing among the wheat, but is a true fruit in defiance of obedience to the Lord's truth. Mrs. White has written well on the subject how we are to deal with tares and with open sins in the Lord's Church.

Your Sister in Christ Jesus,
Cheri Fritz

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42717
07/09/05 04:46 PM
07/09/05 04:46 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Good point, Cheri. We cannot compare the open sins of the tares and the failures of the foolish virgins to procure adequate oil in case of a delay. It is interesting, though, that it is not until the harvest that the sins of tares become obvious. It is also not until the very end that the failures of the foolish virgins is obvious.

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42718
07/09/05 10:57 PM
07/09/05 10:57 PM
Ikan  Offline OP
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
Agreed: therefore many (dare I say most?) think that they are God's man, think they are on the solid platform, assure themselves that they are safe, when they are not...in spite of church attendance, theological degrees, or heavy usages of Bible and SOP.

"Blessed are they that (still!) hunger and thirst..."

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42719
07/09/05 11:26 PM
07/09/05 11:26 PM
Ronnie Whalon  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 126
USA
Blessed are the eyes which saw the things that were seen in 1843 and 1844. The message was given. And there should be no delay in repeating the message, for the signs of the times are fulfilling; the closing work must be done. A great work will be done in a short time. A message will soon be given by God's appointment that will swell into a loud cry. Then Daniel will stand in his lot, to give his testimony. {2MR 20.1}
The attention of our churches must be aroused. We are standing upon the borders of the greatest event in the world's history, and Satan must not have power over the people of God, causing them to sleep on. The Papacy will appear in its power. All must now arouse and search the Scriptures, for God will make known to His faithful ones what shall be in the last time. The word of the Lord is to come to His people in power. {2MR 20.2}

All who wait for the heavenly Bridegroom are represented in the parable as slumbering because their Lord delayed His coming; but the wise roused themselves at the message of His approach, and responded to the message, and their spiritual discernment was not all gone, and they sprang into line. As they took hold of the grace of Christ, their religious experience became vigorous and abundant, and their affections were set upon things above. They discerned where was the source of their supply, and appreciated the love that God had for them. They opened their hearts to receive the Holy Spirit, by which the love of God was shed abroad in their hearts. Their lights were trimmed and burning, and sent forth steady rays into the moral darkness of the world. They glorified God, because they had the oil of grace in their hearts, and did the very work that their Master did before them--went forth to seek and to save those who were lost (ST June 28, 1910). {5BC 1099.7}

Has not the Papacy appeared in their power [Ex: John Paul"s II funeral]. Where and what is the message that awakes the wise virgins?

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42720
07/10/05 11:01 AM
07/10/05 11:01 AM
razorren  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 275
Bahamas
quote:
Originally posted by Ronnie Whalon:
Has not the Papacy appeared in their power [Ex: John Paul"s II funeral]. Where and what is the message that awakes the wise virgins?

Hmm...

 -
Cardinals, in red, participate in the funeral mass for Pope John Paul II, watched by world leaders, at St. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican, Friday April 8, 2005. Royalty, political power brokers and multitudes of the faithful paid their last respects to Pope at a funeral promising to be one of the largest Western religious gatherings of modern times.

Re: "Virgins": asleep or awake? #42721
07/11/05 06:11 AM
07/11/05 06:11 AM
Ikan  Offline OP
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
Ronnie and razorren Let's focus on the lack of the virgins and how to supply that, OK?

My father-in-law was shot down over Holland while piloting a bomber; he was the only one who survived. Some of the cabin crew could not tear themselves away from the instrument panels, whether from shock, morbid fascination or disbelief in the "signs".

Let's grab the parachute the Lord has provided us and get outta the burning bomber. (I'm being poetic!)

[ July 11, 2005, 04:19 AM: Message edited by: Phil N. D'blanc ]

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