When one begins to compare Biblical verses for an in-depth study of the ancient words, one should be certain that the same foreign word is used in each compared verse.

We are talking here of the English word "keep" as used in the New Testament. My copy of Young's shows that the following Greek words are so used:
[NOTE: I will print them in their English transliteration.]

ago
bosko
diatereo
diaphulasso
echo
katakeimai
katecho
krateo
parecho
poieb
prasso
suntereo
tereo
phrouero
phulasso

NOTE: I do not know how to place the "long vowel signs" on the above words, so they are missing. Also, I have left out other Greek words that seem to go afield from the thought, even though they hve been translated as "keep" in the KJV.

As Andrew raised the question in his first post, I will suggest that the following Biblical verses all are important examples of his question:

John 14:15
Revelation 12:17
Revelation 14:12
Matthews 19:17 and
I Timothy 6:14

All of the above verses use the same Greek word, "tereo."

Arndt & Gingrich, a standard Greek lexicon gives the following meanings to "tereo:"

1) To keep watch over, or to guard
2) keep, hold, reserve, preserve, keep unharmed, or undisturbed
3) to not lose
4) to protect
5) observe, fulfill, pay attention to

As one can clerly see, while these meanings to do go against what Strong and Young say, the add to them and are more comprehensisve.

Lexicons of a Biblical language will commonly list Biblical verses that illustrate a meaning. I failed to find Arndt & Gringrich listing the examle of "tereo" in I Timothy 6:14. (It is possible that I misssed it.)

Hoverver, A & G listed all of my other four verses under the meaning of # 5, above: observe, fulfill, pay attention to.

Perhaps this will be of some help in determining what the Bible says in these verses.

Ed:

You said:

**************************************************
"Gregory,
Jesus & Paul have already answered your question."
**************************************************

My real qustion was not about salvation during the 1260 years. My real question was stated as a comment, and directed to you. You sometimes appear to teach that one should intrepret the Bible in terms of what Ellen White has said. That was my comment/question. I am settled in my mind as to salvation prior to EGW.

Peace,

Just a general comment, and directed to no one:

Ellen White wrote in English, and her writings are clear enough for English speaking people to understand what she meant. But I have seen some people attempt to do in-depth studies of individual words in her writings. These have usuallly used modern dictionaries. I am not certain that such word studies are complete without reference to historical dictionaries (such as the Oxford English Dictionary) rather than modern ones.

Language changes over time. Few of us would be able to understand THE CANTERBURY TALES, written by Geoffrey Chaucer who died about 1400. The English has changed to much for us to understand it today. The KJV, of about 1611, can be understood, but provides examples of change in English.

I once was wanted to see how the word "modest" had been used in the 19th. Cent. So, I spent some time with the Oxford English Dictionary. While I do not see a great difference between it's useage in EGWs time, and today, I did feel that there were some minor changes.

Andrew wrote:

"A definition of "keep" I like is "to guard and preserve" or "to set a hedge around." This way it can be the same as saying "remember."

How do we guard, protect and remember the ten commandments? How is it different than a British soldier standing silent and erect at the gates of Buckingham Palace?

The definition of "keep" that Andrew brought out is much more inclusive than just obey. To guard, to hedge about, means that not only will I respect and honor the commandments by obeying them, I will also hold them up as honorable when others want to make them out as abolished. It means that we will point out the positive effects of the Law of God. It means we will always uphold the idea that God's law is honorable, just, holy, and good. And that obeying God and His Law leads to life, happiness, and peace of mind.

David,
I have no idea of the different meanings of any Bible translation, but, I applaud the thoughts which you attached to this verse in John 14:15.

I know by MY experience only, how true are your thoughts on this. When I first joined the SDA church, I so wanted to "keep His commandments." I couldn't understand why that it was impossible, for I had such good intentions and desires.

It took me several years to learn that the problem was that I did not KNOW Jesus. To love someone, one must know them, what they are really like, how we can trust them, etc. and we can know anyone only by communicating with them. Isn't this true? And, not a part of one day a week, but every day.

So, this verse in John is really a promise, "If you love me, you WILL BE ABLE to keep My commandments." What a wonderful promise!!!

I love the SDA church, I am glad I am a part of it, but, I finally have learned that it is Jesus, and Him alone, Who I can look to, and Who can save me. We bring so many people into the SDA church who are much like myself, they believe all that it teaches, yet, they haven't met and spent time with and learned to love the Teacher.

In Christ's Love,
Dora

What you said Dora is so very true which is why Jesus began it with "If you love me...."

Jesus also asked Peter three times:

quote:

---

John 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these?[b] He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, [b]Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

---

As Jesus asked Peter three times if Pater loved Him, Peter answered three times that he did, and Jesus responded three times in asking Peter, therefore, or in consequence, or as a result, to feed his sheep/lambs.

The consequence of knowing Him is to serve Him, and serving Him is to keep His commandments, feed his sheep, etc. Both keep and feed are action words.

Remember also that faith without works is dead.

Well said Dora and Daryl

Now I have a "trick" question.

How do we get to love Jesus in this way; that we WILL BE ABLE to keep His commandments?

If we say it's "getting to know Him;" we can get trapped by our own doctrine here.

After all, don't many couples who marry "get to know one another," and then say "help!"??