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Re: Salvation is from sin, or what, unto what, how and when?
#46322
05/13/03 10:19 PM
05/13/03 10:19 PM
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quote:
Lobo, I'm somewhat confused by your choice of words. Please help me out. The moral versus the mental aspects of God's law - which is which? As I see it, the first four commandments are mental, that is, we are not born naturally knowing them. We must learn them through the Bible. As well as some of the laws of Moses. But the last six commandments are naturally known, to a lesser or greater degree. We are born with an innate knowledge of what is morally right and wrong.
Mike, when I refer to God’s law given to Israel I include them all, 613 laws, not just those on stone. I believe it is a mistake to treat the laws on stone as more law or more valid than those written in the “book of the law” or torah. In fact, the torah also included the laws on stone so that should address that issue as well.
So the distinction between God’s moral law and the law given to Israel is that the laws given to Israel were designed for them at that time. Matt 19:8 is a good example. Jesus in this passage points out that Israel was allowed to divorce because they had “hard hearts”, but that it was not always that way; meaning that divorce was not part of God’s moral law always in existence.
So we see that the moral law was indeed modified for Israel.
Now look at Matt 5 and see where Jesus appears to change the law from being behavioral based to heart or intent based. The reality is that this was a change from the law given to Israel but was not a change in God’s moral law. God’ moral law was always based on intent “from the beginning”, but was changed to behavioral based because Israel needed more direction and was not spiritually developed enough to handle an intent based law at that time. To read a great example of how the law was behavioral based see Ezekiel 18, it is very explanatory. Then read Matt 5.
The precepts that the mosaic law was based on reflect perfect intent, but because Israel had low moral character at that time, a perfect intent was not required. So in the OT law I could think about killing my neighbor all I wanted and still be blameless under the law if I didn't act on that thought, but not in the NT or God’s actual moral law.
So God’s moral law is really what our intent in out hearts and mind is.
So when we become born again we have a change of heart, which means we have prefect intent, that is God’s moral law. God’s moral law is actually just that, perfectly moral intent. That is justification. As we learn how to put action to that intent, that is sanctification, or what you call Mental.
So when I’m saved I have perfect moral intent, then the spirit leads me in how to express it.
Make sense?
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Re: Salvation is from sin, or what, unto what, how and when?
#46323
05/14/03 12:39 AM
05/14/03 12:39 AM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Make sense? Maybe. The difference between moral intent and intelligent behaviour is not easy for me to grasp. If I understand you correctly we are born again when our moral intent is perfect and that over the course of time our behaviour will match our intent. Does that mean we are born again before we know what is in harmony with God's laws? and that in reality we are sinning ignorantly in numerous ways?
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Re: Salvation is from sin, or what, unto what, how and when?
#46324
05/14/03 01:35 AM
05/14/03 01:35 AM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Mike, please reconsider your questions in the light of the two statements you made here. quote:
- Make sense? Maybe. The difference between moral intent and intelligent behaviour is not easy for me to grasp.
- We are born again without our former moral imperfections (aka, defective traits of character). Which implies we are not born again mentally perfect. That is, we may not realize the truth about the sabbath or pork, etc.
Seems to me the two are saying the same thing?
I see the picture of a child (good child, good heart, morally good) that needs to learn and grow in wisdom, knowledge and stature in favour with God and man. Isn't that what both of you are saying?
Shalom
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Re: Salvation is from sin, or what, unto what, how and when?
#46325
05/14/03 01:48 AM
05/14/03 01:48 AM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Good point. The part I'm not sure about is the phrase "moral intent". To me it seems to imply we are willing to do whatever God requires but that we have no idea what He requires. And I want to understand what Lobo is saying. I believe we are born again morally perfect, which means we already know what is morally right and wrong and, by the grace of God, live accordingly. In other words, we are born again walking in harmony with at least the last six commandments, and more than likely with the first three as well. The fourth may need to come later.
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