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Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
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Re: Israel: Children of the flesh or of faith?
#47062
11/06/03 07:11 PM
11/06/03 07:11 PM
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quote:
Now that Israel has been absorbed by the Church I believe it is fair to suggest that Israel in the NT implies the new and improved Israel - the Church. Do you see what I mean?
Mike, I agree that it is something new and different than what was in the past. So if this is the case why would we call this big group of believers Israel?
Israel was the old gospel group, not the new. So why insist that It’s Israel?
Also, what is wrong with saying we have Jews or Israel in the gospel group? It’s like saying we have believers from the USA, Canada, etc..
But you seem to want to say that we are all form one nation?
quote:
I did not say 'replace'. The faithful of God is this whole 'tree'.
Correct! But part of the tree is Israel and part is Gentiles. All faithful.
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Re: Israel: Children of the flesh or of faith?
#47063
11/06/03 07:19 PM
11/06/03 07:19 PM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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Lobo, You said: quote:
Correct! But part of the tree is Israel and part is Gentiles. All faithful.
What was that about?
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Re: Israel: Children of the flesh or of faith?
#47064
11/06/03 07:23 PM
11/06/03 07:23 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Why does Paul refer to this new and improved form of Israel Israel? God basically reorganized the nation of Israel. It makes sense for Paul to refer to the Church of Christ as Israel.
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Re: Israel: Children of the flesh or of faith?
#47065
11/06/03 07:40 PM
11/06/03 07:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
Why does Paul refer to this new and improved form of Israel Israel? God basically reorganized the nation of Israel. It makes sense for Paul to refer to the Church of Christ as Israel.
Where does he do that? Romans 9 is directed to Jews per Paul's own words, so what text are you referring to?
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Re: Israel: Children of the flesh or of faith?
#47066
11/06/03 07:53 PM
11/06/03 07:53 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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His grafted branch analogy suggests that Israel and Gentiles are now one.
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Re: Israel: Children of the flesh or of faith?
#47067
11/06/03 08:10 PM
11/06/03 08:10 PM
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OP
Banned Member
Full Member
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 178
Deer Park, WA
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Actually, His name is Yashuah the Anointed One. As Christ, He stands at the head of all who are anointed with the Spirit of God. What did the anointing qualify Him as? A King (look through the history of Israel if you disagree). What does it say in Revelation 1: 6? "[He] hath made us kings and priests." How? Through the anointing.
So far Lobo, all you have been able to do is cavil the truth.
I still ask the question: What is your take on Exodus 14: 21-22?
Dave
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Re: Israel: Children of the flesh or of faith?
#47068
11/06/03 08:17 PM
11/06/03 08:17 PM
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OP
Banned Member
Full Member
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 178
Deer Park, WA
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Paul in no way says in Romans 9 that he is addressing literal Israel. You are the one who is twisting scripture. God did not make 2 promises to Abraham. He made one promise that had different aspects. Again, you are twisting scripture. How is it that you fail to see that Isaac, being the child of the promise, is the child of faith? It's as if you are in complete ignorance of the circumstances of his birth.
Dave
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Re: Israel: Children of the flesh or of faith?
#47069
11/06/03 09:46 PM
11/06/03 09:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
His grafted branch analogy suggests that Israel and Gentiles are now one.
That is not how the process really works, and I think Paul knew that or he would not have used that analogy.
The truth is that the grafted branch never becomes genetically the same as the tree it is grafted into. And the fact that Paul specifically stated that gentiles were a different kind of branch unnatural to the tree is proof that Paul used this analogy for that very fact.
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Re: Israel: Children of the flesh or of faith?
#47070
11/06/03 09:50 PM
11/06/03 09:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Mullbock:
Paul in no way says in Romans 9 that he is addressing literal Israel. You are the one who is twisting scripture. God did not make 2 promises to Abraham. He made one promise that had different aspects. Again, you are twisting scripture. How is it that you fail to see that Isaac, being the child of the promise, is the child of faith? It's as if you are in complete ignorance of the circumstances of his birth.
Dave
Really? Who are those of his own race mentioned here then?
Get a grip. Open your eyes!
"1I speak the truth in Christ--I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit-- 2I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, 4the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised![1] Amen."
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Re: Israel: Children of the flesh or of faith?
#47071
11/06/03 10:03 PM
11/06/03 10:03 PM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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A grafted branch becomes part of the tree period.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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