Hi Mike:
I will re-read them more carefully. As one of the posters mentioned, I also don't like the term "Duel Prophecy"

The principle I follow is based on "Destroyed for lack of knowlege" in Prophets and Kings, and "The Role of Israel in Old Testament Prophecy" but both of these are macro studies, and at AUC we would start there but apply it in a microstudy to the text at hand. THE fulfillment is either how it was or how it could have been fulfilled at that time. In cyclic thought (try to get Franfort's book "Before Philosophy" from a used book site) similar events cycle around again and we can re-apply the principle to the similar events.

For example, in the Bible we have the theam of the child of promice: Such as the promice to Adam and Eve, Issac, Samuel etc. Isaiah reapplied the theam of the child of promice to the child who was to be a sign for Ahab to know that in a few years he would not have to worry about the king of Israel and the king of Syria. Sadly the King refused to trust God, and so there was not the deliverance that God had hoped to give. The deliverance came, but it was also bad news for Judah-- Assyrea. Matthew reapplied the theam to Jesus. (notice in our trying to get Isaiah predicting Jesus hundreds of years in the future, can you picture someone going to president Bush and saying "Don't worry about Ben Lauden and Sadam Hussin, in 500 years they will be history. In 500 years you won't have to worry about them.")

Jesus did indeed tell that generation that it will not pass, and he did indeed blend together the fall of the temple with the end of the world, depending on the condition "When the gospel is preached into all the world, then shall the end come." The theam of Revelation was "Preach again"

A little closer look, with the sun being dark and the moon red and stars falling.

The context was in talking about the fall of the temple. Normally if a temple fell, that ended the worship of the god of that temple. So for the temple to fall would be a shock to the disciples "What about the worship of Yahweh if the temple falls?" The sun, moon and stars were major gods of the pagans. Jesus was saying that dispite the temple to Yahweh falling, it was going to be the worship of these falls gods that was going to suffer, indicating that they would fall to the knowlege of the gospel. The early apostles started this, but never finished.

Then we have the dark day and red moon in 1798 and the meteror shower of 1833 which called people's attention to these prophecys. But it is interesting how Mrs. White treats the subject. After talking about these events, she then turns her attention to the Bible societys and the mission societies that were forming at the time. The late 1700s and the early 1800s was a spread of the gospel that can only be compaired to the days of the apostles. Thus indeed more of a fulfillment of the prophecy. But now the sun is not as dark, the moon's bleed is only a trickel and the stars are climing back in the sky. But the prophecy is still alive, and will come around again a time of mission work that can only be compaired to the apostles and the late 1700s early 1800s. These are not ezactly what Jesus was talking about when he tied these events of the fall of the temple right to the second coming, but it is close in principle and a fulfillment of the principles.

Kevin, what you call “cycles” I like to refer to as type and antitype, and in some cases, I like to call it dual application. Also, some prophecies seem to treat long periods of time as if certain details happen within a generation, whereas in reality they happen over a period of several generations. Daniel Two is an example of this type of prophecy.

Isaiah’s promised child was a type of the Messiah. Certain details apply to both, and other details only apply to one or the other. For example, a virgin conceiving and bearing a son named Immanuel cannot apply to Isaiah’s wife, it can only apply to the virgin Mary. “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.” Isa 7:14.

When Peter applied the prophecy of Joel to the Pentecost Event we understand him to mean that the prophecy began to be fulfilled at that time, not that it was finished too. This prophecy has been in the process of fulfilling ever since the day of Pentecost, but it will not be finished until after the latter rain has finished its appointed work, which, as of yet, is still in the future. So, Joel’s prophecy spans many, many generations.

However, I am not so sure about the cycles idea. Suggesting that the virgin birth or the early-latter rain prophecies should have been fulfilled at the time they were given, way back then, seems to undo the prophecies themselves. Do you see what I mean? Wouldn’t it do away with the type and antitype aspect of prophecy? Jesus referred to Jonah’s fish experience as a type and antitype, and yet, until He made this application, there was no indication it meant Messiah would spend that much time in the grave.

Kevin:

When you say

quote:

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"and at AUC we would start there"

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Both you and I know exactly what you mean, is that at AUC...."WOODY" would "start there." Isn't it time, that you started thinking for yourself, instead of relying on the instructions and examples of a DEFROCKED (morals clause) Religion Instructor at AUC? I don't think you can go through life, and your theology thinking, relying upon the intellectual reasoning of someone who clearly was disconnected from a personal relationship with Christ. While I too took classes from the same individual......I recognized even then, and it caused me to wonder.....that this individual DOES NOT HAVE A LIVING RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST....irrespective of his intellectual knowledge!

You realize of course, that in certain conferences of the Atlantic Union. That that particular Religion Instructor at AUC was absolutely BANNED from that conference, even back then!
Frankly I'd rather sit at the feet of Paul or Peter who did have that relationship. If I’m unable to set at the feet of Christ Himself.

You don't have to have a degree in anything in order to answer the question of this thread. It is simply as follows. I does help if you can read or someone near by can.

The Great Controversy---- Facing Life's Record
-PG- 483

"As the books of record are opened in the judgment, the lives of all who have believed on Jesus come in review before God. Beginning with those who first lived upon the earth, our Advocate presents the cases of each successive generation, and closes with the living. Every name is mentioned, every case closely investigated. Names are accepted, names rejected.
When any have sins remaining upon the books of record, unrepented of and unforgiven, their names will be blotted out of the book of life, and the record of their good deeds will be erased from the book of God's remembrance. The Lord declared to Moses: "Whosoever hath sinned against Me, him will I blot out of My book." Exodus 32:33. And says the prophet Ezekiel: "When the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, . . . all his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned." Ezekiel
18:24.
All who have truly repented of sin, and by faith claimed the blood of Christ as their atoning sacrifice, have had pardon entered against their names in the books of heaven; as
they have become partakers of the righteousness of Christ, and their characters are found to be in harmony with the law of God, their sins will be blotted out, and they themselves will be accounted worthy of eternal life. The Lord declares, by the prophet Isaiah: "I, even I, am He that blotteth out thy transgressions for Mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins." Isaiah 43:25. Said Jesus: "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels." "Whosoever
therefore shall confess Me before men, him will I confess also before My Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My Father which is in heaven." Revelation 3:5; Matthew 10:32, 33."

I think this is very easy to understand.....And the blotting out of sins takes place:

Act 3:19 "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord."

J. R. Layman; let's not forget Jim Fleming, a Methodist professor at Hebrew Universtity who teaches very similar, and I can go on to place other names who I've studied from, from both Andrews and Loma Linda with similar ideas. As well as the information from the recommended readings. If you keep finding the same results among several different people, and it keeps working...

There's a Spirit of Prophesy quote which says that Satan has devised numerous schemes to distract our minds from studying the work of Christ in the Most Holy Place. Without a knowledge of what Christ is doing there, it will impossible to exercise the faith necessary.

I looked for the quote recently and found it. I just looked for it again and couldn't find it. Perhaps somebody knows it and can point it out.

Anyway, this quote points out the what Christ is doing in the Most Holy Place is profound. It's something which is profound enough that without understanding it, it will be impossible to exercise the faith necessary. We need a more than superficial understanding of what's involved in the Investigative Judgment.

Is this the quote:

GC 488
Those who would share the benefits of the Saviour's mediation should permit nothing to interfere with their duty to perfect holiness in the fear of God. The precious hours, instead of being given to pleasure, to display, or to gain seeking, should be devoted to an earnest, prayerful study of the word of truth. The subject of the sanctuary and the investigative judgment should be clearly understood by the people of God. All need a knowledge for themselves of the position and work of their great High Priest. Otherwise it will be impossible for them to exercise the faith which is essential at this time or to occupy the position which God designs them to fill. Every individual has a soul to save or to lose. Each has a case pending at the bar of God. Each must meet the great Judge face to face. How important, then, that every mind contemplate often the solemn scene when the judgment shall sit and the books shall be opened, when, with Daniel, every individual must stand in his lot, at the end of the days. {GC 488.2}

A Word to the Little Flock-----PG- 12

"I believe the Sanctuary, to be cleansed at the end of the 2300 days, in the New Jerusalem Temple, of which Christ is a minister. The Lord shew me in vision, more than one year ago, that Brother Crosier had the true light, on the cleansing of the Sanctuary, and that it was his will, that Brother C. should write out the view which he gave us in the Day-Star, Extra,
February 7, 1846. I feel fully authorized by the Lord, to recommend that Extra, to every saint.

Here is the link to that article....

http://dedication.www3.50megs.com/pioneerwritings_crosier1.html

Yes, Mike. That's it. Thanks.