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Re: Avoid Contention Promote Harmony
#49416
11/28/04 01:09 PM
11/28/04 01:09 PM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2014
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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Midge again I will say I am sorry you feel the way you do. I will leave it up to the others to dialoge with you. I once knew a man who was teacing the people at a former church I belonged to that we would marry and have children on the new earth. When I gave the people the truth from the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy this man told the people that others had changed what the Spirit of Prophecy said. I called the EGW Estate and told them what this man said and they sent me a copy of the original documents. Which by the way made a stronger point against what he was trying to teach as not all of the document was used in the books we have. It is a very sad thing when people try to do this to God's words to us.
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Re: Avoid Contention Promote Harmony
#49417
11/28/04 03:58 PM
11/28/04 03:58 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Daryl, the following post may have been overlooked by you. I would still appreciate your response. Thanx. quote:
Jesus did not work to correct preconceived misconceptions. "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now." John 16:12. Living under Roman rule was a compromise. The Protestant Reformation was a compromise. That is, God was leading men and women throughout the Reformation even though their knowledge of the truth was incomplete. The Great Disappointment was a compromise. Health reform was a compromise until 1863. In all these cases God overlooked the fact that their knowledge of the truth was incomplete and incorrect.
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Re: Avoid Contention Promote Harmony
#49418
11/29/04 02:52 AM
11/29/04 02:52 AM
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quote:
Jesus did not work to correct preconceived misconceptions.
I can't agree with that. He came to give us God's truth, and truth always dispels misconceptions.
It would be better stated, "Jesus did not work to correct *all* preconceived misconceptions." He corrected what He could while He was here, but He also knew that some preconceived misconceptions were so deeply ingrained that it would take time to overcome them. That would be left to the Holy Spirit to accomplish. (Peter's experience in Acts 10 is a good example of that.)
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Re: Avoid Contention Promote Harmony
#49419
11/29/04 03:13 AM
11/29/04 03:13 AM
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Midge, I think the idea that men have changed the SOP, that we can't trust large portions of it, is the same as saying God can't protect His messages to mankind. Which, to me, belies a lack of faith in His abilities. The "changes" you talk about were authorized and overseen by Mrs. White herself, and that can be proven beyond reasonable doubt. I say "reasonable" instead of "all" because God doesn't remove all occasion for doubt. Those who want to doubt, will. As for the church being fallen or not, here are some additional quotes from her pen: "The Lord has sent messages of warning and entreaty, messages of reproof and rebuke, and they have not been in vain. But we have never had a message that the Lord would disorganize the church. We have never had the prophecy concerning Babylon applied to the Seventh-day Adventist Church, or been informed that the 'loud cry' consisted in calling God's people to come out of her; for this is not God's plan concerning Israel."
{RH 10-03-93 para. 12}
"Again, I say the Lord hath not spoken by any messenger who calls the only church in the world that keeps the commandments of God, Babylon. True, there is chaff with the wheat; but first gather the chaff and bind it into bundles to burn it, but gather the wheat into the garner. I know that the Lord loves His church. It is not to be disorganized, or broken up into independent atoms. There is not the least consistency in this. There is not the least evidence that such a thing will be. Those who shall heed this false message, and try to leaven others will be deceived, and prepared to receive advance delusions, and they will come to naught."
{1MR 303.01} (1893)
"When anyone is drawing apart from the organized body of God's commandment-keeping people, when he begins to weigh the church in his human scales and begins to pronounce judgment against them, then you may know that God is not leading him. He is on the wrong track."
{3SM 18.4} (1893) The loud cry of Revelation 18 calls on us to come out of Babylon, but Babylon does not include the SDA Church. Yes, there are apostates and worldlings in the church, but prophecy has declared that this is to be so! What we need to do is fight back, to take our church back from these people, not give up and leave altogether. I already left one time 20+ years ago; by the grace of God it won't happen again.
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Re: Avoid Contention Promote Harmony
#49420
11/30/04 04:45 AM
11/30/04 04:45 AM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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quote:
It would be better stated, "Jesus did not work to correct *all* preconceived misconceptions."
Yes, that's what I meant. Thanx for the clarification. The point I was attempting to make is that God sometimes compromises in order to maintain enough harmony to gradually lead us into all truth - without blowing us away with too much information too soon.
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Re: Avoid Contention Promote Harmony
#49421
12/03/04 05:36 PM
12/03/04 05:36 PM
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Yeah, it would be 'cruel and unusual' to shine a 3000-watt light into the eyes of someone who's lived in a dark basement for years, wouldn't it. :-)
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Re: Avoid Contention Promote Harmony
#49422
12/03/04 08:54 PM
12/03/04 08:54 PM
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Mike, Yes, God allowed them to have a human king. That is clearly stated in the Bible as quoted below: quote:
1 Samuel 8:4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,
5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and show them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.
Yes, the above verses state very clearly that God permitted them to have a king like the other nations, but He also warned them of the consequences of such a request even to the time when they said that they have no king but Ceasar.
And yes, God allowed them to have more than one wife. The earliest Bible verse is found in Genesis 4:19, quoted below:
quote:
Genesis 4:19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
I don't see, however, where God gave permission to have more than one wife as He later on permitted them to have a king like the other nations. For some reason though God allowed it in the same way He allowed Sunday worship to replace Sabbath worship.
Paul warned the church of false doctrine creeping in, however, God allowed false doctrine to creep into the church. I don't think this would be compromising truth, but rather it would be allowing error, false doctrine, to creep into the church.
Error only creeps in though when we compromise the truth. It is we, who compromise the truth, not God.
Does that then mean that we can still compromise the truth today?
Also, what kind of harmony did it bring?
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Re: Avoid Contention Promote Harmony
#49423
12/03/04 09:11 PM
12/03/04 09:11 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Daryl,
Is your question wether we do compromise truth or wether we can safely compromise truth from Gods perspective?
It would be yes and no I think.
/Thomas
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Re: Avoid Contention Promote Harmony
#49424
12/03/04 09:14 PM
12/03/04 09:14 PM
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Thomas,
I also edited another question in my last post, namely what kind of harmony did compromise really bring?
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Re: Avoid Contention Promote Harmony
#49425
12/03/04 10:48 PM
12/03/04 10:48 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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An interesting question you ask there. What harmony has compromise brought. Compromise doesnt bring that much harmony between the compromiser and other persons who may stay with truth. In the early history when the missionaries started to compromise the requirements for becoming a christian such as accutally knowing what one was doing, it lead to a situation where almost everyone still alive believed in the same compromises which lead to some kind of harmony. In all the history of christianity isnt allways all that harmonious, then again, harmonious times seldom make it into the history books. Good question though.
/Thomas
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