There is a small group planning on studying "The Great Controversy" using the White Estate study guides in the EGW Book Club chat room every Friday night at 8:00 p.m. EDT (Eastern Daylight Time)beginning on Friday, July 8th.

The Study Guides may be found here:

http://www.whiteestate.org/guides/GC.html

Please join by logging onto http://www.maritime-sda-online.org/chat/maritime1.php

If you are not yet registered, please let me know, either here, or in the other topic.

========

New and updated information edited into this post - Daryl

[ June 18, 2005, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: Daryl Fawcett ]

The opening post has been edited with new information and links.

What does being registered mean?

I believe you need to create an account in order to use the flashchat.
God Bless,
Will

Tom,

You are already a registered member of Chat Room #1 with the same username and password that you use here in the forums of MSDAOL.

This is a reminder that this study begins this evening at 8:00 p.m. EDT beginning with the study of Chapter 1.

Oh NO...I missed it. And I had studied for it too. However, I studied Chapter 23 as I thought that was what it said they were starting with. Did I read it wrong in the chat area?

My work has us taking these online tests and I started that and the next time I looked at the clock it was 6:30 my time, so thought no one would still be there by then. Was looking forward to the study too. Well maybe next week...hope I can find out what you really studied.

Sorry you missed a great time. We studied Chapter one as originally planned. Actually had much unity and good fellowship in the Lord.

Don't miss next week, and get your typing fingers limbered up, cause it moves lickity split!

I know I really missed something great. What chapter are we going to study next Friday?

I don't normally place long posts here, however, for the benefit of those who missed it last evening, this is an edited version of what was said pertaining to the study:

quote:

---

[Vicki Hahn] 9:32 pm: Just out of curiosity, how many times have you read GC?

[Phil] 9:32 pm: It was the first book I read when He saved me..I don't actually know how many times...

[Vicki Hahn] 9:33 pm: Was it instrumental in your conversion?

[Phil] 9:34 pm: It WAS my conversion book. God figured I had travelled so much that I would understand all the history, and He was right! Keep in mind, He converted me, and then actually lead me to the city public library to find an old old copy.

[Vicki Hahn] 9:35 pm: How did you find out about it?

[Phil] 9:36 pm: It was one of the only SDA books that had not been stolen from the library. And we are talking a library for a city of 4 million.

[Vicki Hahn] 9:36 pm: I reread GC about four years ago, and it took me a long time to get through it. I had to digest some hard things in it, but it did many things for my Christian experience.

[Phil] 9:36 pm: It's a fabulous book, which will be study forever.

[Vicki Hahn] 9:37 pm: Yes. I started reading chapter 1 several weeks ago and finished it tonight--Chapter 1, that is. It is amazing.

[Phil] 9:38 pm: yep...anyone who can read that and deny the SOP, would deny Moses if he raised from the dead.

[Vicki Hahn] 9:38 pm: Hey, Daryl, I was wondering where you were.

[Vicki Hahn] 9:38 pm: True, Phil

[Phil] 9:38 pm: ditto

[Vicki Hahn] 9:39 pm: We were just discussing the impact GC has had on us.

[Daryl Fawcett] 9:39 pm: Not too many here.

[Phil] 9:39 pm: It's the favorite book I hand out to the underground church here.

[Vicki Hahn] 9:40 pm: No, Marae had family obligations, so that probablly includes her husband and Jan, too! She will try to join later. Phil, how is the Great Controversy accepted there? Why is it underground?

[Phil] 9:43 pm: The underground church is in a muslim country: the SDAS here are guest workers from another country. They all have copies now, but many have problems
with all the Western history.
[Vicki Hahn] 9:44 pm: Oh

[Phil] 9:45 pm: But the spirtual lessons they love. However, as in all godly books, there are vmany different levels of His Lessons.

[Vicki Hahn] 9:45 pm: That's the truth. Why don't we all name one thing that
really stood out for us in Chapter 1?

[Phil] 9:46 pm: For example; many men see the first chapter of the GC as a wide-screen movie epic: the Cecil B. Demille and Charlton Heston version of the destruction of Jerusalem.

[Vicki Hahn] 9:47 pm: Yes, Phil. It is just a taste of what is to come, and that is a scary thought.

[Phil] 9:47 pm: They miss the deeper issues.

[Vicki Hahn] 9:48 pm: For example, Phil? What would one deeper issue be?

[Daryl Fawcett] 9:48 pm: The very 1st paragraph of Chapter 1 set the tone for the whole chapter.

[EGW Book Club Room]: Will has entered at 9:48 pm

[Phil] 9:49 pm: Who sent the Romans to destroy the city?

[Will] 9:49 pm: oh ok, where should I start or catch up from?

[Vicki Hahn] 9:50 pm: Discussing deeper issues in Chap. 1 besides a "wide-screen movie epic: the Cecil B. Demille and Charlton Heston version of the destruction of Jerusalem."

[Phil] 9:50 pm: Who sent the Romans to wipe out Jerusalem? God or Satan?

[Will] 9:50 pm: I'll start on ch.1 then

[Vicki Hahn] 9:50 pm: Looks like it was Satan

[Phil] 9:51 pm: Why?

[Daryl Fawcett] 9:51 pm: How about God allowed the devil?

[Phil] 9:51 pm: Why did God do that?

[Vicki Hahn] 9:51 pm: Mrs. White said the destruction was brought about when the people totally rejected God.

[Daryl Fawcett] 9:52 pm: Right Vicki.

[Vicki Hahn] 9:52 pm: That this was the natural cause of their rebellion and Satan was given control. Jerusalem, before the destruction, must have been a marvelous sight.
Why do you think the people thought God would not destroy Jerusalem even with all the harbingers of doom?

[Phil] 9:56 pm: Whoa...I thought you said Satan destroyed Jersualem!

[Vicki Hahn] 9:56 pm: Whoops...sorry. I can't think fast when I'm typing

[Phil] 9:57 pm: We better be careful of that....it is the basis of many errors in our t=faith to blame the wrong doer! So what is the question?

[Vicki Hahn] 9:58 pm: Why do you think the people thought God would not let Jerusalem be destroyed even with all the harbingers of doom--chariots in the clouds, mysterious voices, etc. Sorry, I'm slow.

[Phil] 9:59 pm: Habit; denominationalism; not willing to face who they had become...pride.

[Vicki Hahn] 9:59 pm: Same thing is happening now...people don't see the signs of the end.

[Phil] 10:00 pm: Blindness is a progressive disease, when we are talking of spiritual blindness.

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:00 pm: Christ didn't weep of Jerusalem for nothing. He knew what their rejection of Him would cost Him, especially when they said they have no king but Ceasar.

[Phil] 10:01 pm: don't you mean "cost them"?

[Vicki Hahn] 10:01 pm: And when they said, "His blood be on us and on our children."

[Phil] 10:02 pm: "His tears were not for Himself, though He well knew whither His feet were tending. "

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:02 pm: GC says, "He wept for the doomed thousands of Jerusalem--because of the blindness and impenitence of those whom He came to bless and to save.” {GC 18.1}

[Vicki Hahn] 10:03 pm: I like what the study guide said regarding what our greatest concern should be in the last days.

[Phil] 10:03 pm: The cost to Him He knew of before the world began: He was in total empathy with their fate.

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:03 pm: Christ told us what our greatest concern should be -- indifference.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:03 pm: Yes

[Will] 10:03 pm: Can I use my GC book (1884 edition) and use the study guide at the same time?

[Vicki Hahn] 10:04 pm: I would think so.

[Will] 10:04 pm: Ok I will go to study guide then

[Phil] 10:04 pm: Can I study without a guide?

[Vicki Hahn] 10:04 pm: What I meant was, we should be more concerned for the lost instead of fearing for our own safety.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:05 pm: Sure, we can all study without the guide!

[Phil] 10:05 pm: That's why I'm here and not in my old house in suburbia.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:05 pm: It did bring up some of the "deeper" issues, though, Phil.

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:05 pm: Vicki can facilitate using the guide for us, if she chooses.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:06 pm: The guide is helpful to draw attention to some important things, that's all. We can just discuss the issues at will.

[Phil] 10:06 pm: I mean, I can't get any SDA books here without great struggles, so I will be guideless, but not Guide-less.

[Will] 10:06 pm: go to http://www.whiteestate.org/guides/GC.html

[Phil] 10:07 pm: Thanks, amigo...will take a look at the link.

[Will] 10:08 pm: you're welcome

[Vicki Hahn] 10:08 pm: I've never done any of this "facilitating" before, so I appreciate any help you all can give!

[Will] 10:08 pm: I'm guessing we are on question 1. I think.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:08 pm: Sure

[Phil] 10:09 pm: Well...Will and I are a bit on the curious side, so brace yourself, Vicki!

[Vicki Hahn] 10:09 pm: Great!

[Will] 10:09 pm: hehehe

[Phil] 10:09 pm: (I don't mean odd!)

[Vicki Hahn] 10:11 pm: Why did Jesus allow everyone to treat Him like He was going to be victorious over the Romans? Why didn't He just explain what was going to happen in simple terms? Would they have believed Him?

[Phil] 10:12 pm: He did, but spiritual things are spiritually understood. He was a plain as He could be.

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:12 pm: He did tell His disciples, however, they didn't understand what He weas really saying. Good answer, Phil.

[Phil] 10:12 pm: Sounds like MSDAOL at times, eh what????

[Vicki Hahn] 10:13 pm: Why did Jesus allow them to treat Him like a temporal king?

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:13 pm: Re the palm branches, riding on a donkey and such?

[Vicki Hahn] 10:13 pm: Yes

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:13 pm: Because that was who they were looking for.

[Phil] 10:14 pm: He didn't! The riding on the colt was a homage act that is common among any celebrity visiting, even today!

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:14 pm: And that was also who He is.

[Phil] 10:14 pm: Any of you folks been in the Middle East?

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:14 pm: Celebrity or king.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:14 pm: Morocco.

[EGW Book Club Room]: Jan has entered at 10:14 pm

[Phil] 10:15 pm: But in no way like a temporal king, Daryl.

[Jan] 10:15 pm: Hello. Did I miss it all?

[Vicki Hahn] 10:15 pm: No, we're just heating up.

[Will] 10:15 pm: I believe there was a king in the Old Testament that had the same elements as was Christ's entrance into Jerusalem

[Phil] 10:15 pm: OK...Vicki, see any little donkeys there? Go to any weddings?

[Vicki Hahn] 10:16 pm: No, Phil, but I saw the remains of the royal wedding and there were lots of horses.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:17 pm: What happens, Phil?

[Phil] 10:17 pm: Ok, Vicki: Jesus would never con anyone, so I do not see Him as allowing them to think He was going to be the king. He made that very clear at the Loaves and Fishes lesson.

[Will] 10:17 pm: the hosannas, and the palm leaves were part of His triumphal entry. I am trying to understand this. Never mind. I got it backwards.

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:18 pm: But they saw it as the entry of a king.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:18 pm: But it could seem that Jesus was leading them to think He was going to deliver them NOW>

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:18 pm: And He knew that. So why did He do it?

[Phil] 10:19 pm: Yes, but that was because of gossip, not Christ's doing. Who is the origin of gossip?

[Vicki Hahn] 10:20 pm: I'm not sure, Daryl.

[Phil] 10:20 pm: Because He knew that that would insight the governement of the Jews and the occupying forces the Romans to kill Him.

[Will] 10:21 pm: I have the following mentioned:Amid the universal rejoicing of triumphal entry, whilepalm branches wave, while glad hosannas awake the echoes of the hills, and thousands of voices declare him king, the world's Redeemer is overwhelmed with a sudden mysterious sorrow.

[Will] 10:21 pm: I am understanding universal rejoicing literally. Is that correct?

[Phil] 10:22 pm: Nope; it's a Victorian term meaning "the general populace"

[Will] 10:22 pm: Ah. So everyone in Jerusalem basically.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:23 pm: So the triumphal entry was during Passover and so was the destruction of Jerusalem.

[Phil] 10:23 pm: Yep...He was popular at last for all the wrong reasons andSatan was going to capitolize on it to kill Him. Yep....everybody was in town alright! It was the entire nation of Israel plus overseas Jews too.

[Will] 10:25 pm: How do you know it was Passover?

[Phil] 10:25 pm: (but mostly men travelled to the feast).

[Will] 10:25 pm: I'm on the second page, and so far can’t see Passover mentioned.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:26 pm: I believe it is mentioned in the Bible about the Passover during Jesus' death and later on in Chapter 1 regarding destruction of Jerusalem.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:29 pm: Does anyone else have any questions about Chapter 1?

[Will] 10:29 pm: I'm still reading it. Ooh wait.

[Phil] 10:29 pm: Ok: so Jeus knew that they would kill Him, thus leaving themselves utterly vulnerable to Satan's usage of the hated Romans to destroy them, correct?

[Will] 10:29 pm: Yes I want to know how we know it is Passover? I believe Jesus did give them that warning on the first page taken from Luke 19:43,44.

[Phil] 10:30 pm: yes!

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:30 pm: It was just before His crucifixion which was during the
Passover.

[Phil] 10:31 pm: So therefore it was Passover week!

[Will] 10:31 pm: I will have to read up on the feast days some more cause after Passover there was the first fruits.

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:31 pm: And later on Pentecost 40 days later.

[Will] 10:32 pm: Incredible!

[Phil] 10:32 pm: Will see if you can get F.C. Gilbert's "Practical Lessons for the Church Today"...he was the first SDA Jewish convert and he clears up all this stuff.

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:32 pm: They were all antitypes of Him.

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:33 pm: “Two days before the Passover, when Christ had for the last time departed from the temple, after denouncing the hypocrisy of the Jewish rulers, He again went out with His disciples to the Mount of Olives and seated Himself with them
upon the grassy slope overlooking the city. Once more He gazed upon its walls, its towers, and its palaces. Once more He beheld the temple in its dazzling splendor, a diadem of beauty crowning the sacred mount.” {GC 23.1}

[Will] 10:33 pm: I have\am reading Stephen Haskells "The Cross And Its Shadow", but I am getting confused on how the feast days work. Will check that out. I will see if I can do a special order from ABC

[Phil] 10:33 pm: Yeah...Haskell is good, but Gilbert is much clearer, being a Jew.

[Will] 10:34 pm: I would hope it would be very clear

[Phil] 10:35 pm: It is...changed my perspective completely away from Gentile traditional thoughts. Ok: So Jeus knew that they would kill Him, thus leaving themselves utterly vulnerable to Satan's usage of the hated Romans to destroy them, correct?

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:38 pm: “Jesus declared to the listening disciples the judgments that were to fall upon apostate Israel, and especially the retributive vengeance that would come upon them for their rejection and crucifixion of the Messiah.”

[Vicki Hahn] 10:39 pm: Phil, I'm not sure how to answer.

[Phil] 10:39 pm: Whose hatred? It's back to "Love Me or I'll kill you."

[Vicki Hahn] 10:39 pm: Yes, Jesus knew they would kill Him.

[Will] 10:40 pm: "Had Israel as a nation preserved her allegiance to Heaven, Jerusalem would have stood forever, the elect metropolis of God." That tells me a few things

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:40 pm: Disobedience and rejection of their Creator and Redeemer does have its consequences.

[Will] 10:41 pm: That’s right Daryl.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:41 pm: Yes.

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:41 pm: However, Christ's approach is salvation, not condemnation.

[Phil] 10:41 pm: Yes and that consequence IN THIS CASE was to leave them to the satanic Romans.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:42 pm: "The hour of hope and pardon was fast passing; the cup of God's long-deferred wrath was almost full. The cloud that had been gathering through ages
of apostasy and rebellion, now black with woe, was about to burst upon a guilty people;"

[Will] 10:42 pm: God did use Babylon to attack Jerusalem.

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:42 pm: Rejection of his salvation, however, leads to condemnation (judgment)

[Will] 10:42 pm: I'm getting off track.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:43 pm: and He who alone could save them from their impending fate had been slighted, abused, rejected, and was soon to be crucified. When Christ should
hang upon the cross of Calvary, Israel's day as a nation favored and blessed of God would be ended.

[Phil] 10:43 pm: Christ did not whisper to the Romans "Now you go and rape and burn and torture. I decree it!"

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:43 pm: “These words faithfully described the corrupt and self-righteous inhabitants of Jerusalem. While claiming to observe rigidly the precepts of God's law, they were transgressing all its principles. They hated Christ because His purity and holiness revealed their iniquity; and they accused Him of being the cause of all the troubles which had come upon them in consequence of their sins. Though they
knew Him to be sinless, they had declared that His death was necessary to their safety as a nation. "If we let Him thus alone," said the Jewish leaders, "all men will believe on Him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation." John 11:48. If Christ were sacrificed, they might once more become a strong, united people. Thus they reasoned, and they concurred in the decision of their high priest, that it would be better for one man to die than for the whole nation to perish.” {GC 27.1}

[Phil] 10:44 pm: Yes; See, they accused God . We must not accuse God for their
consequences, but Satan.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:44 pm: The same thing is being set up to happen in these last days.

[Phil] 10:45 pm: Yes...the parellels are uncanny...

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:45 pm: “Thus the Jewish leaders had built up "Zion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquity." Micah 3:10. And yet, while they slew their Saviour because He reproved their sins, such was their self-righteousness that they regarded themselves as God's favored people and expected the Lord to deliver them from their enemies.
"Therefore," continued the prophet, "shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest." Verse 12.

[Phil] 10:46 pm: Their pride blinded them and God was forced to leave them to their own chosen fate: Satan's revenge on the Jews.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:46 pm: People will want to keep the status quo and will enact law after law (then the Sunday Law) to keep things the way they are.

[Phil] 10:47 pm: And the blame for "God's wrath" on them will fall on........SDAs.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:47 pm: And they will think they are doing God's will. Yes, Phil. So is the Sunday Law the abomination of desolation?

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:48 pm: The Guide says: "9. When men finally and irrevocably reject God, they thereby choose Satan as their ruler. What kind of master is he? Show that the destruction of Jerusalem and of the Jewish nation was a natural consequence of their
impenitence. How does this principle apply to our own time? 35:3 [38:2]"

[Phil] 10:48 pm: But we know that that is Satan's spirit, not God's. Blamers always look away from their own consequences. Ok...the guide is in agreement with this!

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:50 pm: This goes along with the Sunday Law talk here: "10. To whom are we indebted for peace and protection? What may cause the withdrawal of this protection, and with what consequences? 36:1 [39:1]"

[Vicki Hahn] 10:51 pm: Rejection of God's law

[Phil] 10:51 pm: So we need to be very careful when we see the words "the wrath of God"...It does not mean what we commonly assume it means. It means the turning away of His protecting love because of the hardness of their hearts.

[EGW Book Club Room]: Marae_Hoover has entered at 10:51 pm

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:52 pm: As far as Jerusalem goes: "The Jews had forged their own fetters; they had filled for themselves the cup of vengeance. In the utter destruction that befell them as a nation, and in all the woes that followed them in their dispersion, they were but reaping the harvest which their own hands had sown. Says the prophet: "O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself;" "for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity." Hosea
13:9; 14:1."

[Vicki Hahn] 10:52 pm: That scene reveals to us the exceeding sinfulness of sin; it shows how hard a task it is, even for Infinite Power, to save the guilty from the consequences of transgressing the law of God. Jesus, looking down to the last generation, saw the world involved in a deception similar to that which caused the destruction of Jerusalem. The great sin of the Jews was their rejection of Christ; the great sin of the Christian world would be their rejection of the law of God, the foundation of His government.

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:52 pm: Jerusalem in effect destroyed themselves.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:52 pm: GC 22.2

[Phil] 10:53 pm: Amen...see what I mean on MSDAOL Daryl...? This is what I have been promoting.

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:53 pm: The same will be the case at the 2nd coming.

[Phil] 10:53 pm: Amen again.

[Marae_Hoover] 10:53 pm: I agree with Daryl.

[Will] 10:53 pm: I have to go. we have some company over, so I will go ahead and do chapter 1 lesson and follow up next week. God Bless and Happy Sabbath all

[Marae_Hoover] 10:53 pm: I had thought that very thing for a long time, ber read thisefore I e

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:54 pm: But God either allows the devil to to it, or He does it Himself as will be the case at the 2nd coming.

[EGW Book Club Room]: Will has left at 10:54 pm

[Phil] 10:55 pm: So if God withdraws because of our choices, and leaves us vulnerable to Satan, how can we blame God?

[Marae_Hoover] 10:55 pm: I hope tonight went well seems so.

[Phil] 10:56 pm: I'm having a blast!

[Daryl Fawcett] 10:56 pm: We can't blame God. The wicked can only blame themselves for what God does to them either directly or indirectly.

[Vicki Hahn] 10:56 pm: Yes, it has been great. Started late...about 8:40 or so.

[Marae_Hoover] 10:56 pm: oh if it hadn't been for the storm I would have made it.

[Phil] 10:56 pm: Amen and a great parting shot!

[Vicki Hahn] 10:56 pm: This is what it will be like in heaven--like-minded believers! Praising God!

---

NOTE: I left at this point, therefore, I do not have anything further that was said in the study.

This will, hopefully, encourage more to participate in the Friday, July 15th study at 8:00 p.m. EDT.

I will be away for a few Fridays, therefore, I hope somebody else will do what I did, and save, and place an edited version of the future studies here.