Reading the context, there are two points. The original context, to my understanding of what I read, was preaching. " Many from among our own people are writing to me, asking with earnest determination the privilege of using my writings to give force to certain subjects which they wish to present to the people in such a way as to leave a deep impression upon them."

She said EVEN IF the context was correct, she wouldn't give permission. "The persons who make these propositions, for aught I know, may be able to conduct the enterprise of which they write in a wise manner; but nevertheless I dare not give the least license for using my writings in the manner which they propose." She didn't say she didn't give permission because she wasn't involved. She said she wouldn't give permission for them "... in the manner in which they propose", which was to use them to "to give force to certain subjects". We use her writings to give force to certain subjects all the time. Are there other statements which would qualify this one?

Of course, if we are discussing Mrs White's writings, we have to use them. But the "Bible Study" forum isn't full of the bible at times. And it's open to visitors, isn't it? If all our doctrine is contained in scripture, don't we give the impression that we rely on Ellen White for doctrine when that's what we quote in such a forum? And to use her writings in any open forum is the same as using them from the pulpit, isn't it?

Isaiah 8:
19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

If there is no bringing forth of the words of the law and the testimony how can there be a comparing to tell whether or not things being set forth by others are according to the words of the law and testimony or not?

Amos 3:
3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

In order to agree there must be dialog and interchange to decide if there are grounds for agreement. To create that possibility God reveals various things through prophets.

Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

To reason together two people, or more, must bring things together that are within the grasp of each other to reason upon and consider together.

When I read these quotes I get the picture of the prophet refusing fanatics to build their own platforms using the SOP as their source of name dropping legitimacy. I do not get a doctrine that SOP should not be used from pulpit or forum. However I also see lots of folks taking SOP and trying to make it say what it’s statements in context do not say. They do the same with the Bible. If dishonest use of SOP & Bible causes the stoppage of honest use of SOP & Bible - then a reversal of this text has been allowed to happen because mind games have been capitulated to by folks who should have striven to keep the faith represented by active support.

Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

SOP has a present place among God’s children, till Jesus returns.

1 Corinthians 1:
1 ¶ Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
10 ¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

When Bible & SOP are used as Bible & SOP themselves explain, and no "ism" adgendas are ruling, whatever group of SDA's are there will indeed become of the same mind and in the same judgment. Though they will not see identically in every tiny detail.

Once SDA's in North America & around the world were known as people of the Book. SOP was the behind the scenes facilitator of that. North American SDA-ism has too far left SOP & Bible behind in favor of the tape - the video - the "special speaker" (who may or may not be personally SDA or committed to present truth.)

Personal study is too rare among us anymore & we are reaping what we have sowed. I am going through the series in the discipleship pack @ www.FAST.st . I highly reccomend it. Here is what I posted elswhere about it.

I am currently going through the FAST.st Discipleship Pack and am in the survival kit section of the course. I have already perused the Basic training section and the Multiplication Pack, and the phamplets "For such a Time", "Leadership Manual", "From Church to Training Center".

The system is not a one idea or one point system. Memorization is of no value if it does not become use in your life. The Bible is not looked at as if it were a secular memorization project. The system is geared to achive these basic things in a person's life.

1. Motivate and empower / prepare them to come to Jesus & accept & receive Him as their Saviour & Lord and obey and follow Him. How to become rooted in the Word & the Word engrafted in you at this stage.

2. Grow in Him & intrest others in how He has helped you. How to become rooted in the Word & the Word engrafted in you at this stage.

3. Learn how to recognize & follow the Bible's past & present testing truths . (Become SDA & thrive). How to become rooted in the Word & the Word engrafted in you at this stage.

4. How to intrest others and teach these things to them also as an individual, group leader, Church coordinator. How to become rooted in the Word & the Word engrafted in you at this stage.

Every stage has different needs to prepare for and different demands upon a person & within a person as they move into or resist each stage of growth. This is a well thought out set of guidelines for a systematic organized training for personal and group and local Church discipleship .

The model for this is taken from the Actions of the Apostles and their converts that they trained to replicate their ministry and outreach and local nurture and the common rootedness in the Word and dependence upon God to work with them and personally ensure His mission to suceed in them & through them.

When I became an SDA no one trained me how to be an SDA, just taught me things to follow & left a lot of gaps. It has been a process of catch as catch can to build a lifestyle over the years.

Too much external franework is stressed in contemporary SDA-ism without equally building a system of heart work that builds & depends upon the engrafted Word within & the power of God to vitalize that engrafted Word within that gives life to the external framework of the belief system.

Still a basic care plan that built a total care plan without gaps and missing spots, and built in preperation for the future at each step, would have been better. This is that type of system.

I hope this answers your questions and persuades you to try this system out for yourself and if so, prompts you to critique here; after going through the whole system (the average time is 6 months .)

I'm sorry, but the quote seems specific, and I will answer just one thing you said, Ed: "When I read these quotes I get the picture of the prophet refusing fanatics to build their own platforms using the SOP as their source of name dropping legitimacy." Why are you ignoring or overlooking her own words that say, "The persons who make these propositions, for aught I know, may be able to conduct the enterprise of which they write in a wise manner; but nevertheless, I dare not give the least license for using my writings in the manner which they propose." Please tell me what the difference is when people use her writings to add force to their presentations from the pulpit - or elsewhere. If a comment is to qualify this one, it must relate to this situation, contradict in in another context, or SOMEthing. Texts describing the great value and the obvious necessity of the spirit of prophecy don't qualify this one which is referring to the way it is used. And Mrs White is talking about the Testimonies. Was this an all-purpose term for her writings, or did it specifically refer to those letters directed at specific individuals or situations? Perhaps there is an answer in that? Just because we do something as a common thing, doesn't mean it's correct, if there is something that says we shouldn't.

Zyph:
Where did you get the reference you are talking about? I do not recognize PM. Before I attempt to tackle the question I would like to get more of the context.
Thanks

I think it was from the Ellen G. White estate search engine, although I don't remember exactly. I think Ed's first long post contained references. PH116 25a.3 - that's a cut and paste job. Is that familiar?

Zyph:
I was going back through some of Eds quotes and your quote appeared. It looks as though it is from Selected Messages (SM). The context is when just anybody picks up and decides to write a book and quote all kinds of SOP to back up there perspective. I believe that Sister White was trying to give a general guideline. She did not want just anybody to try to quote her writings to back up what people said. She did not want her writings attached to anybody and everybody. Now somebody might be able to do it well but she did not want to give a blanket approval to just quote. I think, like in all of her presentations, that somebody who is balanced can do so and get the job done right, but how is anybody to know who that balanced person is. She would make the same statement about the Bible because the principle is the same. Just because someone puts a whole bunch of Scripture together does not mean that it represents Jesus well and in fact could misrepresent Him.

So the issue is should we use the Bible and SOP to fortify truth, yes. Should just anyone go out and do it, no. But the man or woman who is being led by the Spirit must use the Bible and the SOP but use it in a manner that the Spirit can bless.

Thank you, Greg. And, Gerry, you were right about the context (at least, I think it was you!) In my usual haste, I read without seeing what was plainly there. It was about publishing.

But I'm still not satisfied that we use Mrs White's writings exactly the way she herself would allow. If all our doctrine is in the bible, can I say that in public forums, surely we should be laying a foundation of bible truth prior to introducing people to the spirit of prophecy. I know so many people who will listen to scripture, but if you start talking about a prophet, they will immediately close their minds, based on the context of wierdness and other so-called prophets, such as Mary Baker Eddy. People need time to break down the walls. Spiritual discernment develops progressively doesn't it?

Please note - the context of my original post was about using SOP appropriately. I'm not talking about the validity of SOP, which I believe with all my heart, in case you think I'm trying to undermine it.

A lot of the problem may stem from the fact that too many will prepare a sermon, but, be to 'lazy' to search out the scripture themselves.
I guess I have been blessed as most of the pastors I have listened to don't very quote her to the extent you seem concerned with.
they use her writings to help clarify a point.
As do I. I also use other good christian writers to get a point across.

I am currently going through the Testimonies, because I never thought ofit until now.
I am heartened by the fact that she experienced many of the same uncertainties that I do.
She asked many of the same questions.
I understand that these books were written for SDA audiences, not the general public.
The Conflict of the Ages series, now, are different.
She encouraged them to be put into as many hands as we can get them into.
Particularly The Great Controversy.
I have read all 5 of the books in this series, they helped me to understand the stories of the bible in a way I never had before.
I understand your concern, I have had some of the same concerns myself, but after study and prayer, I trust to God to make it all come out all right.

Zyph:
I think your last post is a good summary of your question. Sr. White has stated over and over again that when speaking to the public the primary presentation should be to the Bible. The people have had no opportunity to be exposed to the SOP and they will need much Bible study to even understand the concept of prophecy none the less see EGW as a prophet. The Bible is to be the primary study and the SOP should be a support to that study.