The following is a quote by Ellen G White:

quote:

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"...It is a great evil, and one which exists among our people to a great extent, to give loose rein to the thoughts, to question and criticize everything another does, making mountains out of molehills, and thinking their own ways are right, whereas, if they were in the same place as their brother, they might not do half as well as he does. It is just as natural for some to find fault with what another does as it is for them to breathe. They have formed the habit of criticizing others, when they themselves are the ones who should be brought severely to task and their wicked speeches and hard feelings be burned out of their souls by the purifying fire of God's love. . . . " CH P297

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What do you suppose she means?

Is it always wrong to criticize?

Are there any other quotes on Ellen G White on this topic?

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl Fawcett :)

I've found a dilema here.

Aren't you criticizing when you criticize those who criticize?

Can the preceeding statement be criticized for being a little too snarky, perhaps leading this discussion off-track?

Just be warned, Sibelius said "No one has ever built a monument to a critic."

Anyone care to respond?

Oops, I just remembered that this is an Ellen White thread. I do recall that she was quite critical herself in the Great Controversy about the actions of well-meaning Protestants just before the Massacre of St. Bartholomew. If I remember correctly, she states that some overly zealous Protestant churchmen distributed literature criticizing the Catholics. The response to this forever changed the political and religious structure in France. The Hugenots were kicked out of power and thousands of people died. All this because of righteous "criticism."

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"A man at peace with God and his fellowman cannot be made miserable."
4T p.88

Pastor Andrew

[This message has been edited by A. Marttinen (edited August 15, 2000).]

Before commenting any further myself, I would be interested in more on what both the Scriptures and the SOP have to say about this topic.

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl Fawcett :)

Whenever I read something of this nature, I want to know its context. So I look it up as I did the opening quote. The paragraph before the above quote is:

quote:

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Men who have been appointed to different positions of trust are to be respected. We do not expect to find men who are perfect in every respect. They may be seeking for perfection of character, but they are finite and liable to err. Those who are engaged in our institutions should feel it their duty jealously to guard both the work and the workers from unjust criticism. They should not readily accept or speak words of censure against any who are connected with the work of God, for in thus doing God Himself may be reproached and the work that He is doing through instrumentalities may be greatly hindered. The wheels of progress may be blocked when God says "Go forward." {CH 297.1}

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Now the 2 paragraphs following the quote:

quote:

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A person who will allow any degree of suspicion or censure to rest upon his fellow workers, while he neither rebukes the complainers nor faithfully presents the matter before the one condemned, is doing the work of the enemy. He is watering the seeds of discord and of strife, the fruit of which he will have to meet in the day of God. . . . {CH 297.3}

This disrespect for others, this disregard for right and justice, is not a rare thing. It is found to a greater or less extent in all our institutions. If one makes a mistake, there are some who make it their business to talk about it until it grows to large proportions. Instead of this, there should be in all engaged in our institutions a sacred principle to guard the interest and reputation of everyone with whom they are associated, even as they would wish their own reputation guarded. {CH 298.1}

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The context makes it quite clear that the reference is to SDA institutions and the workers in those institutions. Having worked in some SDA health institutions, I can say that criticism is alive and well. It is made worse by the fact that much of the personnell in the medical institutions are not of the Adventist faith, and don't always understand the reasons why things are done in a certain way.

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Even so come, Lord Jesus
Linda

I'll start with SOP:
Self will ever cherish a high estimate of self. As men lose their first love, they do not keep the commandments of God, and then they begin to criticize one another. This spirit will constantly be striving for the mastery to the close of time. Satan is seeking to foster it in order that brethren in their ignorance may seek to devour one another. God is not glorified but greatly dishonored; the Spirit of God is grieved. Satan exults, because he knows that if he can set brother to watch brother in the church and in the ministry some will be so disheartened and discouraged as to leave their posts of duty. This is not the work of the Holy Spirit; a power from beneath is working in the chambers of the mind and in the soul temple to place his attributes where the attributes of Christ should be. {TM 189.2}
We call God our Father; we claim to be children of one family, and when there is a disposition to lessen the respect and influence of another to build up ourselves, we please the enemy and grieve Him whom we profess to follow. The tenderness and mercy that Jesus has revealed in His own precious life should be an example to us of the manner in which we should treat our fellow beings and especially those who are our brethren in Christ. {4T 222.1}
God is continually benefiting us, but we are too indifferent to His favors. We have been loved with an infinite tenderness, and yet many of us have little love for one another. We are too severe upon those we suppose to be in error, and are very sensitive to the least blame or question in regard to our own course. {4T 222.2}
This has not always been fully understood. Satan has often brought in a spirit that has made it impossible for church members to discern opportunities for service. Believers have not infrequently allowed the enemy to work through them at the very time when they should have been wholly consecrated to God and to the advancement of His work. Unconsciously they have wandered far from the way of righteousness. Cherishing a spirit of criticism and faultfinding, of pharisaical piety and pride, they have grieved away the Spirit of God and have greatly retarded the work of God's messengers. {9T 125.2}
This evil has been pointed out many times and in many places. Sometimes those who have indulged in a censorious, condemnatory spirit have repented and been converted. Then God has been able to use them to His name's honor and glory. {9T 125.3}
It is a law of God that whoever believes the truth as it is in Jesus will make it known. The ideas and convictions of the individual mind will seek for expression. Whoever cherishes unbelief and criticism, whoever feels capable of judging the work of the Holy Spirit, will diffuse the spirit by which he is animated. It is the nature of unbelief and infidelity and resistance of the grace of God to make themselves felt and heard. The mind actuated by these principles is always striving to make a place for itself and obtain adherents. All who walk by the side of an apostate will be imbued by his spirit to share with others their thoughts and the result of their own inquiries, and the feelings which prompted their action; for it is not an easy matter to repress the principles upon which we act. {TM 290.2}
Judas was highly regarded by the disciples, and had great influence over them. He himself had a high opinion of his own qualifications, and looked upon his brethren as greatly inferior to him in judgment and ability. They did not see their opportunities, he thought, and take advantage of circumstances. The church would never prosper with such shortsighted men as leaders. Peter was impetuous; he would move without consideration. John, who was treasuring up the truths that fell from Christ's lips, was looked upon by Judas as a poor financier. Matthew, whose training had taught him accuracy in all things, was very particular in regard to honesty, and he was ever contemplating the words of Christ, and became so absorbed in them that, as Judas thought, he could not be trusted to do sharp, far-seeing business. Thus Judas summed up all the disciples, and flattered himself that the church would often be brought into perplexity and embarrassment if it were not for his ability as a manager. Judas regarded himself as the capable one, who could not be overreached. In his own estimation he was an honor to the cause, and as such he always represented himself. {DA 717.1}
This was the method of Christ's teaching. As He spoke to the people, they would question as to His meaning. To those who were humbly seeking for light, He was always ready to explain His words. But Christ did not encourage criticism or caviling, nor should we. When men try to provoke a discussion of controverted points of doctrine, tell them that the meeting was not appointed for that purpose. {6T 69.1}
Closely connected with Christ's warning in regard to the sin against the Holy Spirit is a warning against idle and evil words. The words are an indication of that which is in the heart. "Out of the abundance of proud to retract it, and try to prove themselves in the right, until they come to believe that they are. It is dangerous to utter a word of doubt, dangerous to question and criticize divine light. The habit of careless and irreverent criticism reacts upon the character, in fostering irreverence and unbelief. Many a man indulging this habit has gone on unconscious of danger, until he was ready to criticize and reject the work of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." {DA 323.1}

How's that for a start?
More to come, I hit the motherlode this time.

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What is popular is not always right.
What is right is not always popular.
Gerry B.

Sister Linda hit the hammer square on the nail.

We need to read more than one quote and we need to see the context of that quote.

Let the word search from both the Bible and the SOP continue.

Sister Linda's researching the context of the quote I posted confined it to the church leaders, however, Brother Gerry's quotes went further than that to cover all of us.

Studying the SOP is the same as studying the Bible in that we need more than one reference before reaching a conclusion. So let us keep those quotes and references coming.

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl Fawcett :)

Notice especially the last paragraph.

Those Who Pronounce Judgment on the Church.--When anyone is drawing apart from the organized body of God's commandmentkeeping people, when he begins to weigh the church in his human scales and begins to pronounce judgment against them, then you may know that God is not leading him. He is on the wrong track. {3SM 18.4}
Constantly, men and women are arising who become restless and uneasy, who want to set up some new contrivance, to do some wonderful thing. Satan watches his opportunity to give them something to do in his line. God has given to every man his work. {3SM 18.5}

To Restore, Not Tear Down.--There are opportunities and privileges in the church to help those who are ready to die, and to inspire the church with zeal, but not to tear the church to pieces. There are plenty of opportunities in the church to walk in Christ's lines. If the heart is full of zeal to press on to a deeper sanctification and holiness, then work in that line in all humbleness and devotedness. The church needs freshness and the inspiration of men who breathe in the very atmosphere of heaven, to vitalize the church, notwithstanding the tares are among the wheat. . . . {3SM 19.1}
I would caution all believers to learn to maintain a godly jealousy over yourselves, lest Satan shall steal your heart away from God and you slip unconsciously into work in Satan's lines, without perceiving that you have changed leaders, and be found in the treacherous power of a tyrant. {3SM 19.2}
We are as a church to be wide awake, and to work for the erring among us as laborers together with God. We are furnished with spiritual weapons, mighty to the pulling down of the fortress of the enemy. We are not to hurl the thunderbolts against the church of Christ militant, for Satan is doing all he possibly can in this line, and you who claim to be the remnant of the people of God had better not be found helping him, denouncing, accusing, and condemning. Seek to restore, not to tear down, discourage, and destroy.--Manuscript 21, 1893. (Published in The Review and Herald, Nov. 8, 1956.) {3SM 19.3}

"Press together," said the angel, "Press together."

Wes

Quite a topic.

There seems to be an implies difference between critism and rebuke. Perhaps looking at the purposes of both criticism and rebuke the true nature of each can be uncovered.

Rebuke is often spoken of in Scripture, but also with various phraseology is pictured sharp words and gossip between people.

I located the Bible texts on the derivations of the word rebuke. They are not yet in my computer-will have to put it in soon & segment it into parts.

However the purpose and action and results of criticism seem different than that of Scripturaly taught rebuke. Could it be that criticism is Satan's counterfit of rebuke ?

God has built rebuke-repentance-forgiveness-spiritual growth into His Gospel plan of restoration.

Could it be that criticism - refusal to be ashamed - guilt turned into rage & hostility & grudges & long term envy / jealousy / wounded pride - are Satan's Gospel plan of rebellion and degredation ; setup in opposition to the Gospel of God?

Maybe criticism is a bigger player in this war than we thought ?

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Edward F. Sutton

[This message has been edited by Edward F. Sutton (edited September 13, 2000).]

Having been on the receiving end of both, criticism and rebuke, I can tell you from my own experience, I prefer rebuke ( if I have to have one or the other ).
Rebuke goes after the action, hoping to bring an awareness of our (my) behaviour.
Criticism goes after the individual. Tearing them down in the hopes of preventing any effort to accomplish because of a fear of attack.

At least that is how it appeared to me.

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What is popular is not always right.
What is right is not always popular.
Gerry B.

No one has ever built a monument for a critic. --Jean Sibelius

In referring to the situation at Laodicea, Ellen White calls the counsel therein "Straight Testimony of the True Witness." Lots of give what they think is "straight testimony," but I'm most impressed by the rest of the phrase "...of the True Witness."

Rebuke definately is better than criticism, but not as good as "admonition." The best, though, is "strong counsel." Christ had some great rebukes and admonitions for the 7 churches of Revelation. Then he added some strong counsel (rather than advice or suggestions).

Buying gold, white garments and eyesalve and opening the door to Christ in our church (Rev. 3) are great counsel (also there's a little bit of "why didn't you get these things earlier?" rebuke in those statements).

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As the Happy Moments Roll,

Pastor Andrew

[This message has been edited by A. Marttinen (edited September 13, 2000).]