HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,609
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 16
kland 9
Daryl 4
May
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Member Spotlight
ProdigalOne
ProdigalOne
Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,185
Joined: June 2015
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
7 registered members (Kevin H, Karen Y, Daryl, dedication, ProdigalOne, 2 invisible), 3,079 guests, and 13 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: "Lay Sister White right to one side:" #6677
08/28/01 03:46 AM
08/28/01 03:46 AM
Gerry Buck  Offline
Charter Member
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,859
Benton Harbor, Mi.
from Moderator Notification e-mail :
Gerry when you mentioned personal letters of Ellen G. White which personal
letters did you mean?

In The Blessed Hope

Avalee

I was thinking primarily of letters she wrote to friends and family, about day to day activities not involving the church.

I run into people from toime to time that state that everything she is to be considered inspired (theologically) and I take issue with that.
Was her shopping list inspired?
Was a letter about her children, what they were doing and how their training was progressing inspired?
No, I don't have instances of such letters, but it is to make a point.
I believe that the SOP books are inspired of God, and accept the premise that even the quotations of other authors are inspired as well, in the sense that God guided her in the choice.

I have to look, but I have a copy of an article about that in my computer somewhere, just have to fin d it.
Hope this explains what I was trying to say... probably not as I have a difficult time explaining myself.

------------------
Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try my reins and my heart. Ps.26:2
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in men.Ps.118:8

[This message has been edited by Gerry Buck (edited August 27, 2001).]


Re: "Lay Sister White right to one side:" #6678
08/27/01 05:16 PM
08/27/01 05:16 PM
Avalee  Offline
Charter Member
Active Member 2014

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
Thanks Gerry....I thought that was what you were trying to say. I have met people who try to say ALL her letters she wrote to people are not inspired...when we can see by her own words she says different.

In The Blessed Hope

Avalee


Re: "Lay Sister White right to one side:" #6679
09/01/01 12:34 AM
09/01/01 12:34 AM
zyph  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,061
Australia
I wish to reiterate that I have no doubt about the inspiration of Ellen White. I don't think I am in any way trying "to make of none effect the Spirit of Prophecy". I DO have trouble with the concept of claiming our theology is based on her writings and not scripture. I believe if we spent most of our time sifting through scripture in the way we sift through SOP, there would be more spiritual giants.

Re: "Lay Sister White right to one side:" #6680
09/01/01 02:37 AM
09/01/01 02:37 AM
Gerry Buck  Offline
Charter Member
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,859
Benton Harbor, Mi.
I posted once before about SOP.
Not in thius particular thread, but thought I would try to recreate it here.

First, I believe in the inspired work of EGW, I believe that she had the prophetic gift from God and that He guided her in the books and periodicals she wrote.
I accept that they are given to us for instruction, but, I do not hold them at the same level of scripture. Her writings are just a hair below the canon of scripture (as she called it, the lesser light), the reason it was given in the first place, according to her own words, was because we refused to study and pray scripture as we should.

I can't speak for other churches, but, here in Tawas, we have very little quoting of EGW from the pulpit, but, we study her writings in prayer meeting and at home and in SS.
I believe her writings have a place in our lives, she was, after all, a messenger sent to us by God, with warnings, admonitions and encouragement as well.
All through her writings she has continually pointed her readers to the Book of Books, encouraging and admonishing us to get into it.

Our early church fathers were known as the 'People of THE BOOK', which book?
Desire of ages?
Maybe testimonies for the Church?
How about Great Controversy?
Or maybe one of about a hundred others?

NO!!!!

We were known as the people of the only book that mattered to others, the Bible.
Unfortunately today, we are known more as the people of Ellen G. White, that strange prophet.
I have had several people outside the church ask me about this, I have tried to show them from her own writings that she never intended this to be this way.
This, I believe, is why she made that startling statement, to lay her aside, not all together, but until we were willing to get back into the book, and make our stand on the sure word of scripture.

Our watchword is to be, "To the law and to the testimony:if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." [ISA. 8:20.] We have a Bible full of the most precious truth. It contains the alpha and the omega of knowledge. The Scriptures, given by inspiration of God, are "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." [2
TIM. 3:16, 17.] Take the Bible as your study-book. All can understand its instruction. {GW 309.1}

I only lay her aside when dealing with a non-adventist, but as they grow and are ready, I introduce them to her writings.
I find that if I use her counsel, I will quote scripture, and it is more readily accepted, I have used her writings to make a point, just as I have used the writings of other inspired writers, it seems to be the best way of studying with those outside the SDA church.
Sorry I got so long winded.

------------------
Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try my reins and my heart. Ps.26:2
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in men.Ps.118:8


Re: "Lay Sister White right to one side:" #6681
09/06/01 09:03 PM
09/06/01 09:03 PM
Gerry Buck  Offline
Charter Member
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,859
Benton Harbor, Mi.
This will speak for itself.
It comes from one of our biblical scholars.

Samuele Bacchiocchi, Ph. D.,
Retired Professor of Theology, Andrews University

The many comments generated by the last newsletter (No. 73)
on "Ellen White: Prophet or Plagiarist?," by William Fagal, have
made me forcefully aware of the fact that Ellen White is perhaps more
controversial today than she has ever been in the past. Frankly, I
did not anticipate to receive so many negative comments from
Adventists who express their reservations about the prophetic
leadership of Ellen White.

What I find distressing is the method used by some to
discredit the writings and ministry of Ellen White. Simply stated the
method consists in appealing to some alleged mistakes to prove that
Ellen White was in error in everything she wrote or did. Incidentally
this is the method Dr. Robert Morey used this afternoon, September 6,
2001, in a debate on the Sabbath sponsored by a popular Christian
Radio Station (WTRU) in Winston-Salem, NC. I was invited to discuss
with him for two hours whether or not the Sabbath is still relevant
for Christians today. He began by attacking the Sabbath as the
creation of Ellen White-a mentally disturbed woman who was a false
prophet because of her statements on "amalgamation."

Rest assured that I responded immediately by exposing the
falsity of Dr. Morey's allegations. I told him that he was grossly
mistaken on two counts. First, because the Sabbath is a divine
creation and second, because a mentally disturbed woman could hardly
a guided the Adventist Church in its formative years and help her
become a global movement with 12 million members, who enjoy the best
educational, medical, and evangelistic programs any church has to
offer.

The strategy of attacking Ellen White on the basis of some
alleged mistakes she made, is faulty, because it ignores the
manyfold contributions that Ellen White has made to the educational,
medical, theological, evangelistic aspects of our Adventist message
and mission. The truth of the matter is that our Adventist church
would not be today a global movement with 12 million members, had it
not been for the enlightened leadership Ellen White gave to the
church during its formative years.

Few years ago four of us Adventist scholars had a fruitful
dialogue with delegates of the Church of God Seventh day, with its
headquarters in Denver, Colorado. At the end of a session on the
role of Ellen White in the Adventist church, one delegate of the
Church of God Seventh day said: "I wish that our Church of God had
had the prophetic leadership of someone like Ellen White. We would
not have experienced so many splits over the years."

To discredit the enduring contributions Ellen White has made
to the message and mission of our Adventist church , by focusing on
few alleged mistakes, it is like striking out at a beautiful forest
because few of its trees are ugly. It is unfortunate that some fail
to look at the larger picture of the contributions of Ellen White,
because they find fault with some of her statements. For example,
several subscribers to our newsletter wrote that they cannot accept
Ellen White because of her statements about "amalgamation."

Whether or not Ellen White's statements about the
amalgamation between humans and animals, are correct or incorrect, it
is not for me to decide. No one knows what happen before the Flood.
All what Scripture tells is that "the wickedness of man was great in
the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was
only evil continually" (Gen 6:5).

In my view the issue is not whether or not Ellen White's
statements about amalgamation or about anything else are accurate,
but whether such isolated statements can be legitimately used to
discredit her all her writings and contributions to the Adventist
church. This method reminds me of those who ask to have their
addresses immediately removed from the ENDTIME ISSUES subscription
list, when I express a view which is unacceptable to them. The least
that can be said about these people is that they are shortsighted.
They automatically reject anything or anyone who disagrees with them
in a particular area.

Do Inspired Writers Make Mistakes?

The method used to discredit Ellen White has been repeatedly
used by critics to discredit the Bible. They point to the alleged
mistakes and contradictions found in the Bible. This strategy is
based on the popular assumption that people inspired by God never
made a mistake, because they were constantly supervised by the Holy
Spirit in everything they said or wrote. This popular assumption is
faulty because it ignore the mysterious blending of the human and
divine elements present in inspired writers. A careful reading of
Scripture confronts us with the presence of the human element.

To illustrate this point, let us consider Paul's counsel
found in 1 Corinthians 7:8: "To the unmarried and the widow I say
that it is well for them to remain single as I do." There is no
question that Paul's terse advice contradicts God's explicit
statement: "It is not good that the man should be alone" (Gen 2:18).
If God Himself stated at creation that living alone without a marital
partner "is not good," what business did Paul have to encourage
people to remain single like himself? Would it not have been wiser
for Paul to keep his personal opinion to himself?

Undoubtedly Paul did not foresee the problems his personal
advice would cause during the course of Christian history. Many have
appealed to Paul's personal opinion found in the Bible, to exalt
celibacy as a superior life calling than that of a married life. One
of the many questions I plan to ask Paul on resurrection day, is
this: "Paul, why didn't you keep your personal opinion about
remaining single to yourself? Didn't you realize how many people
would appeal to your personal advice in order to promote priestly
celibacy-a practice that runs contrary to God's original design for
human beings? How do you reconcile your advice to remain single with
your own injunction that a church leader should be the husband of one
wife? (1 Tim 3:2)" I look forward to hear how Paul will answer these
and other important questions raised by his writings.

Frankly, I wish that the Holy Spirit had restrained Paul from
expressing his personal views and also guided him to write with
greater clarity on such important issues as the relationship between
law and grace. Countless scholars have tried to reconcile the
apparent contradictions between Paul's negation of the law (Rom 3:28)
on one hand and affirmation of the law (1 Cor 7:19) on the other
hand. Much of the existing confusion could have been avoided if the
Holy Spirit had controlled Paul's mind and literary style, to ensure
that the apostle would define relationship between law and grace with
clarity and simplicity for the lay person to understand.

It is evident that this is not the way God chooses to
operate. He does not suppress the individual freedom, even when
writing about eternal truths. What this means is that we do not
reject Paul's writings and discredit his ministry because some of the
things he wrote are unacceptable. We must recognize the fact that
Paul had the right to express his own opinions and that God did not
deem it necessary to prevent him from doing so. His contributions to
the mission and message of the Christian church are not diminished by
the few things we may find unacceptable or contradictory.

The Need for a Balanced Interpretation of Ellen White

The same principle applies to the writings of Ellen White.
She had the right to express her own views, especially when
dialoguing or writing to friends. The problem arises when we assume
that all the 100,000 plus pages she wrote, whether as personal
letters or formal writings, are the product of divine supervision and
consequently normative for defining beliefs and practices.

During the over twenty years of his ministry, Paul must have
written hundreds of letters to the churches he established. Of them
only 13 have been preserved and have become part of the New
Testament. By contrast, in the case of Ellen White, practically
everything she ever wrote, whether private letters to friends or
formal writings for the church, have been preserved. In fact all her
writings are readily available on a CD-ROM and are used without any
consideration to the time and circumstances in which they were
written.

Our church failure to develop a balanced and realistic use
and application of Ellen White writings, could be a reason for a
growing resentment toward her writings and influence. We are facing
today a paradoxical situation. Some Adventists, especially in some
European countries, do not want to hear any reference to Ellen
White's writings in sermons or articles. By contrast, other
Adventists have gone to the other extreme and have "canonized" Ellen
White into a "saint" like the Catholic have done with Mary. They
appeal to any statement Ellen White ever made, even in her private
correspondence, to promote their own agenda.

The solution to this divisive situation is the development of
a balanced understanding and use of Ellen White's writings. The same
applies to the Bible. This requires the use of common sense.
Unfortunately, common sense is becoming increasingly uncommon. Thus,
we need to pray daily for the Holy Spirit to grant us a larger
measure of common sense to rightly divide the words of truth. It is
my firm conviction that Ellen White still speaks to our spiritual
needs today. To discredit her writings and prophetic leadership, can
only leave us poorer, both as individuals and as a church. On the
other hand, a balanced use of her writings can enrich our understanding and experience of biblical truths.

------------------
Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try my reins and my heart. Ps.26:2
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in men.Ps.118:8


Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderator  dedication 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 04/30/24 10:34 PM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Rick H. 04/26/24 06:05 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: The Sunday Law
by dedication. 04/22/24 05:15 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: Part Two
by TruthinTypes. 04/21/24 11:14 PM
Where is the crises with Climate mandates?
by dedication. 04/21/24 09:25 PM
2nd Quarter 2024 The Great Controversy
by dedication. 04/21/24 06:41 PM
Iran strikes Israel as War Expands
by dedication. 04/21/24 05:07 PM
What Happens at the End.
by Rick H. 04/20/24 11:39 AM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 04/18/24 05:51 PM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:24 PM
Chinese Revival?
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 06:12 PM
Carbon Dioxide What's so Bad about It?
by Daryl. 04/05/24 12:04 PM
Destruction of Canadian culture
by ProdigalOne. 04/05/24 07:46 AM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
When Does Satan Impersonate Christ?
by Daryl. 05/01/24 07:58 PM
The Papacy And The American Election
by Rick H. 04/30/24 09:34 AM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by ProdigalOne. 04/29/24 04:47 PM
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by dedication. 04/22/24 06:04 PM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by Rick H. 04/13/24 10:19 AM
A Second American Civil War?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:39 PM
A.I. - The New God?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:34 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 07:10 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1