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Why humanity need redemption?
#73317
04/17/06 03:01 AM
04/17/06 03:01 AM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Hi, I am still alive. Thanks God!
I have this question in my mind and could not answer them properly my self, I don't know and have not the time yet to check in this forum whether a similiar topic had ever been posted. So, please advice me your reasoning to my topic to help me to understand why we need Jesus Christ and many people not.
In His love
James S
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Re: Why humanity need redemption?
#73318
04/18/06 03:01 AM
04/18/06 03:01 AM
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OP
Charter Member
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Jakarta, Indonesia
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If some one say, because we could not save our selves, I would comment: surely we could not safe our selves but God could save us.The question is; why through a painful redemption of the only begotten son of God? Why not just forgives all our sins and open the door of heaven for us?
In is love
James S
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Re: Why humanity need redemption?
#73319
04/18/06 01:32 PM
04/18/06 01:32 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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That's a good question, James. From God's point of view, He does precisely what you suggest. He forgives all our sins and opens the door of heaven for us. However, it is not God's action or lack of action which bars the door of heaven to us, but our own choice. The problem is that we are alienated from God, enemies in our own mind (Col. 1:20). As long as we remain in this state, heaven would have no joy for us. We would use the open door of heaven to depart from it as quickly as possible, not to enter in! Quote:
Could those whose lives have been spent in rebellion against God be suddenly transported to heaven and witness the high, the holy state of perfection that ever exists there,-- every soul filled with love, every countenance beaming with joy, enrapturing music in melodious strains rising in honor of God and the Lamb, and ceaseless streams of light flowing upon the redeemed from the face of Him who sitteth upon the throne,--could those whose hearts are filled with hatred of God, of truth and holiness, mingle with the heavenly throng and join their songs of praise? Could they endure the glory of God and the Lamb? No, no; years of probation were granted them, that they might form characters for heaven; but they have never trained the mind to love purity; they have never learned the language of heaven, and now it is too late. A life of rebellion against God has unfitted them for heaven. Its purity, holiness, and peace would be torture to them; the glory of God would be a consuming fire. They would long to flee from that holy place. They would welcome destruction, that they might be hidden from the face of Him who died to redeem them. The destiny of the wicked is fixed by their own choice. Their exclusion from heaven is voluntary with themselves, and just and merciful on the part of God. (GC 542, 543)
Something needs to happen which will transform our minds, so we no longer view God as arbitrary, harse, severe and unforgiving, but as He is in truth. We must perceive God's love in order to be reconciled to Him.
Quote:
even as a sinner, man was in a different position from that of Satan. Lucifer in heaven had sinned in the light of God's glory. To him as to no other created being was given a revelation of God's love. Understanding the character of God, knowing His goodness, Satan chose to follow his own selfish, independent will. This choice was final. There was no more that God could do to save him. But man was deceived; his mind was darkened by Satan's sophistry. The height and depth of the love of God he did not know. For him there was hope in a knowledge of God's love. By beholding His character he might be drawn back to God. (DA 761, 762)
To be reconciled, we must behold God's character. We need to know the height and depth of the love of God.
This required a painful redemption.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Why humanity need redemption?
#73320
04/21/06 02:32 AM
04/21/06 02:32 AM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Thanks Tom.
I understood your idea and quotes from EGW, which is very true.
But, I think this doesn’t answer my questions directly.
My question is why humanity needs redemption? Why through a painful redemption of the only begotten son of God? Why not just forgives all our sins and open the door of heaven for us?
You said: “To be reconciled, we must behold God's character. We need to know the height and depth of the love of God. This required a painful redemption.”
Why a peaceful man, a God’s believer who lives with faith in Him need to be redeemed by the Son of God? Would he not be transformed to the image of God through the Holy Spirit?
I could accept EGW quotes and what you have said, if those people were worldly people who lives for the flesh, heaven would be an unhappy place for them and they would ask to be returned to earth where all their happiness are.
But a God’s believer who loves his neighbors, who seek heaven though a faithful life, why does he need salvation through the painful death of the Son of God? Could God not just forgives his sins and opened the door of heaven for him? And I believe this man would suit himself well in heaven for he had lived with faith and lead by the Spirit.
In His love
James S
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Re: Why humanity need redemption?
#73321
04/21/06 05:46 AM
04/21/06 05:46 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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God does forgive his sins and opens the door of heaven for him. But the only way *he* (the believer in God) could be reconciled was by the painful death.
The painful redemption was not necessary for God, but for man.
This was what I was presenting in the quotes I cited. Perhaps if you re-read the quotes looking for this point, you'll see it. If not, I can try to make my thought clearer.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Why humanity need redemption?
#73322
04/21/06 06:05 AM
04/21/06 06:05 AM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Sorry Tom, I didn't see it.
Please made it simple and clear.
In His love
James S
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Re: Why humanity need redemption?
#73323
04/21/06 01:26 PM
04/21/06 01:26 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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Quote:
God does forgive his sins and opens the door of heaven for him. But the only way *he* (the believer in God) could be reconciled was by the painful death.
The painful redemption was not necessary for God, but for man.
There is no logic to this. However, you will believe it for reasons best known to you.
Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
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Re: Why humanity need redemption?
#73324
04/21/06 06:16 PM
04/21/06 06:16 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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There are two groups of people, which can be divided as sheep and goats. The goats are those who are described above as those who would be unhappy in heaven. God has forgiven them; the door is open; but they want nothing to do with Him. They long to flee from Him, because His presence is to them as a consuming fire. There is no arbitrary or imposed action on God's part which causes them to be lost, but they choose their fate. Their exclusion from heaven is *voluntary with themselves*. God simply honors their choice. The sheep desire to be in heaven. Why? Because the love God and admire Him. They admire His attributes of character. They long to be a part of His world, to spend eternity with Him. God honors their choice as well. How does one become a sheep? To know God is to love Him. But how can we know God? Only through Jesus Christ. The whole purpose of Christ's mission was to reveal God to us that we might be reconciled to Him. The only way for our salvation was to see the height and depth of God's love; His character must be made known. Hence the costly gift of God's Son. Here's another statement from the Desire of Ages: Quote:
The earth was dark through misapprehension of God. That the gloomy shadows might be lightened, that the world might be brought back to God, Satan's deceptive power was to be broken. This could not be done by force. The exercise of force is contrary to the principles of God's government; He desires only the service of love; and love cannot be commanded; it cannot be won by force or authority. Only by love is love awakened. To know God is to love Him; His character must be manifested in contrast to the character of Satan. This work only one Being in all the universe could do. Only He who knew the height and depth of the love of God could make it known. Upon the world's dark night the Sun of Righteousness must rise, "with healing in His wings." Mal. 4:2. (DA 22)
The only way we could see the truth about God was for God to become a human being, and live among us, showing us what God is like. Is this any clearer?
I'm happy to answer any follow up questions. It's a very important question you're asking James!
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Why humanity need redemption?
#73325
04/21/06 06:18 PM
04/21/06 06:18 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Darius, man was the one who needed redeeming, not God. Why is it not logical that God's work was necessary for man?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Why humanity need redemption?
#73326
04/21/06 06:28 PM
04/21/06 06:28 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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If God's work was necessary then it was necessary for both. The reason is that man never asked to be redeemed; it was a unilateral effort on God's part. You claimed it was not necessary for God, only for man.
Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
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