James, sinners die because Jesus does not allow them to eat of the tree of life. Why and how they die matters very much. But more importantly, why and how they can avoid dying in the lake of fire matters very much. We need redemption in Jesus because without it we will die in the lake of fire.

Here is some more scripture James, some of the clearest scripture on the fact that sin causes death is found in Romans 7, but by no means the only place.

Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins , which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

In Verse 13, Paul clearly states that God does not use the law to cause death, But sin, uses the law to work death.

Does this make sense? How does sin use the law to work death?

Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

MM, I'm not sure you noticed this:
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The sin of man has brought the sure result,--decay, deformity, and death. (1SDABC 1085)

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I'd like to say a bit more about this one. If death were the result of not eating from a tree, rather than being from sin, why would the death of animals result? Was it because God did not permit them to eat from the tree of life? Or was it because of sin? Why did decay come about? Was it due to a lack of access to the tree of life, or because of sin?

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Tom: John, I would interested in seeing any Scripture references you had in mind while writing your post, most especially in reference to the first paragraphs.

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Since you did not specify which particular thoughts I will guess at some.

Spirit is life; eternal life.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that (quickeneth) gives life; the flesh profiteth nothing:
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening (life giving) spirit.

Sin or righteousness is in the spirit.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

If the law is spiritual then it takes the spirit to live it.

Life by spirit:

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith:
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

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Tom: I had a question about this: "Eating of the tree of life perpetuated the life of the body which otherwise by itself is in degenerative mode." I don't understand that there could be a "degenerative mode" without sin.

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My statements were very brief. I will repeat them, and expand a little.

Eating of the tree of life perpetuated the life of the body which otherwise by itself is in degenerative mode. The degenerative aspect is particularly keyed to the spirit. Being one with God is eternal life in spirit.

There are two sides to your question:

The one side has the key in the word “by itself”. There is a tendency to think of heavenly physical things as having eternal life inherently. If eternal life were inherently in physics it would cease to be virtue. The primary point is that in heaven all living things live by the spirit and not vice-versa.
The first scripture that comes to my mind is Heb 1:3 … upholding all things by the word of his power, and … the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life Joh 6:63

All things are upheld by his spirit. This one thing I have seen is that the secret of eternal life is hidden not in any fantastical physics, but in the spirit of God. This too is the key as to why sin is death; it is a spirit contrary to life.

The other side has the key in the word “without sin”, as opposed to “in all righteousness”. This can get difficult to express. I stated it this way: The degenerative aspect is particularly keyed to the spirit. The point is the need to allow for growth and learning and maturing of spirit until we all come to the fullness of the stature of Christ. So any lack of completeness of spirit would be a degenerative mode (lack of sustenance of the body), needing the tree of life until such time as apprehended. I think of angels that did not sin or fall but did not see through Satan’s sophistry until the cross, when the spirit was manifested.

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Tom, on page 11 of this thread I quoted several inspired insights that describe God's feelings and attitudes in regard to the punishment and death of the wicked in the lake of fire. Please explain how my view differs from the apostle John's and Sister White's in the quotes I posted. Thank you.

Jesus has "no pleasure" in the death of the wicked, but when justice is finally served He will be satisfied, His wrath will be appeased, and He will rejoice that sin and death are eliminated with unsaved sinners in the lake of fire. That's how the inspired authors describe it.

Tom and John, as to what causes the first death I think it is clear in the Bible and SOP that not being able to eat regularly of the tree of life is what causes us to gradually die the first death. Sin is not some kind of toxic or poisonous element that kills naturally like a lethal injection.

Otherwise, Jesus would not have had to prevent sinners from eating of the tree of life. Adam and Eve would have been punished and destroyed immediately according to their deeds. They would not have died a long lingering death. Without the plan of salvation such a slow death would have been pointless and cruel. It would have served no purpose.

I agree, though, that how we die is not as important as why Jesus will not allow us to eat of the tree of life. He knew that a minority of sinners would accept Him and benefit from the plan of salvation. So He granted the human race probationary time to decide for or against His kingdom and character.

But Jesus loves us too much to allow us to live in a sinful state during the entire time Earth is on probation. Six thousand years is too long to live in a sinful world. Thus, He denies us access to the tree of life. The result is we die gradually. The sleep of death is a blessing in disguise. The decay, disease, and deformity that affects nature and man are lessons we can learn from and are the result of the curse Jesus pronounced on account of sin.

Those wicked people who reject salvation in Jesus, who count it an unholy thing, are "worthy" of the punishment they will receive in the lake of fire at the hands of an angry and offended God. Willingly and willfully rejecting the Lamb of God is no laughing matter. It is the gravest of offenses, deserving of the most severe retribution and vengeance. Angels of God rejoice at the judgments of Jesus. Obviously there is something about it that satisfies them.

Hebrews
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

4T 191
The Lord will not be trifled with. Those who neglect His mercies and blessings in this day of opportunities will bring impenetrable darkness upon themselves and will be candidates for the wrath of God. Sodom and Gomorrah were visited with the curse of the Almighty for their sins and iniquities. There are those in our day who have equally abused the mercies of God and slighted His warnings. It will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for those who bear the name of Christ, yet dishonor Him by their unconsecrated lives. This class are laying up for themselves a fearful retribution when God in His wrath shall visit them with His judgments. {4T 191.2}

FLB 338
To our merciful God the act of punishment is a strange act. "As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked." Eze. 33:11. . . . Yet He will "by no means clear the guilty." "The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked." Ex. 34:6, 7; Nahum 1:3. By terrible things in righteousness He will vindicate the authority of His downtrodden law. The severity of the retribution awaiting the transgressor may be judged by the Lord's reluctance to execute justice. The nation with which He bears long, and which He will not smite until it has filled up the measure of its iniquity in God's account, will finally drink the cup of wrath unmixed with mercy. {FLB 338.5}

John, I see degeneration as being aligned with the concept of entropy, which I see dependent upon sin. Without sin, there would be not "friction" in the system, so to speak. It would work perfectly. So there wouldn't be any degerneration or degredation.

In one of the SOP quotes I cited, it spoke of how decay came from sin, which agrees with my understanding.

One other comment regarding the John quote. When it says the spirit gives life, could that be the Spirit gives life? What I understand Jesus meant was that:
a)Knowing God is eternal life (John 17:4)
b)We need spiritual understanding in order to know God, as in a)

This is the same idea as when Jesus said that those who worship God must worship Him in spirit and in truth. My understanding of this would have to do with the part of the mind that deals with spiritual things, which would have to do with what the Spirit of Prophecy calls that "higher powers of the mind." I don't understand that there is a spirit within us which exists apart from the mind.

I don't know if I'm disagreeing with what you're presenting or not. Overall, I'm right with you, as far as the big picture is concerned. I'm not sure if we might see some of the smaller details a little differently.