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Apostleship #74547
05/27/06 01:32 PM
05/27/06 01:32 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline OP
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Quote:

Which brings me back to the SOP. Ellen White was much more than a prophet: I have no doubt she was an apostle.



Quite a bold statement IMO. It raises interest in the biblical criteria for apostleship. What is said about it?

=====

I created a new topic on this from this post. - Daryl

Last edited by Daryl Fawcett; 05/27/06 09:34 PM.
Re: Apostleship #74548
05/27/06 08:10 PM
05/27/06 08:10 PM
Will  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
The criteria I found for an Apostle is one has to be sent out by Jesus Christ Himself.
God Bless,
Will

======

Topic name change correction only. - Daryl

Last edited by Daryl Fawcett; 05/27/06 09:35 PM.
Re: Apostleship #74549
05/27/06 09:37 PM
05/27/06 09:37 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,123
Nova Scotia, Canada
Will,

Isn't that a term for a disciple?

Isn't an apostle a person who has seen Jesus?

Isn't that why Paul is called an apostle as he saw Jesus on the Damascus Road?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Apostleship #74550
05/27/06 09:49 PM
05/27/06 09:49 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,123
Nova Scotia, Canada
To facilitate this topic, I am quoting from the SDA Bible Commentary's Bible Dictionary on what an apostle is.

Quote:


Apostle. [Gr. apostolos, from apo, “off,” “away,” and stello, “to send,” “to dispatch”; thus literally, “one sent forth,” and by extension, “a messenger,” “an ambassador.” In classical Greek apostolos is frequently used of a ship or fleet dispatched on a merchant or naval expedition; of the captain of a ship or the commander of a naval squadron; of a representative in the sense of an ambassador or envoy. In Koine Greek, the Greek in which the NT was written, apostolos is also used with these 2 general applications: (1) to things, and (2) to persons. It appears with the connotations of a ship sent, a cargo dispatched; of the documents that represent the ship and its cargo, the bill of lading, or, perhaps, the export license. It is used of persons in the sense of ambassador, envoy, delegate. Josephus uses this word when speaking of the ambassadors whom the Jews sent as their representatives to Rome (Ant. xvii. 11. 1).]
In NT usage apostolos carries the ideas of mission and representation. The term appears in the record of Jesus’ ordaining and sending forth His disciples on an evangelistic mission (Mt 10:2–6). It is probable that Jesus on this occasion used the Aramaic sheléÆach, the equivalent of the Hebrew participle shaluach, “sent.” This Semitic term of which apostolos is the Greek equivalent appears to have had a technical use among the Jews. In rabbinical literature it appears with reference to authoritative messengers and representatives, such as those responsible for gathering offerings from among the Diaspora Jews. It seems apparent that apostolos is used in the NT, in the main, with a similar technical significance.
The term apostolos is used in the Gospels, with one exception (Lk 11:49), only with reference to the Twelve whom Jesus called and sent out. These 12 were Andrew and his brother Simon, later known as Simon Peter (Mt 4:18–20; Mk 1:16–18; Lk 6:14; Jn 1:35–42); James and his brother John, sons of Zebedee (Mt 4:21, 22; Mk 1:19, 20; Lk 6:14); Philip (Jn 1:43, 44); Nathanael, also named Bartholomew (Jn 1:45–51); Matthew, also called Levi (Mt 9:9; Mk 2:14; Lk 5:27, 28); Thomas; James the son of Alphaeus; Simon the Zealot or Cananaean; Judas, brother of James; and Judas Iscariot. There are 3 complete listings of the 12 apostles in the NT (Mt 10:2–4; Mk 3:14–19; Lk 6:13–16). A 4th listing (Acts 1:13) omits the name of Judas Iscariot. A comparison of the order of the names in these listings shows that the names are apparently given in no particular order, with the exception of Simon Peter, Philip, and James the son of Alphaeus, whose names appear 1st, 5th, and 9th, respectively, in each list. This has led to the suggestion that there were 3 groups of 4, headed by these 3 men. See names of individual apostles. Of the Twelve, Peter, James, and John seem to have been singled out for special privileges. They were present at the raising from death of the daughter of Jairus (Mk 5:37–42); at the transfiguration of Jesus (Mt 17:1, 2); and in the Garden of Gethsemane during the agony (Mk 14:32, 33). This was no doubt due to the fact that these 3 had a clearer comprehension of, and a deeper sympathy with, the work and teachings of Jesus. One of the Twelve, Judas Iscariot, became a traitor, and later Matthias was elected to fill his office and thus to preserve the original number of the 12 apostles (Acts 1:15–26).

“The term apostolos, however, is not restricted to the Twelve. When Paul, in defending himself against those who challenged his ministry, laid claim to being an apostle, he used the word in its technical sense, giving as proof of his apostleship the fact that he had seen the Lord (1 Cor 9:1, 2; cf. Acts 1:21, 22, 25) and had received a direct commission (Gal 2:8, 9; cf. Rom 1:1).

The term “apostle” is applied also to Barnabas (Acts 14:14); to Apollos, whom Paul includes among the apostles who have become “a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men” (1 Cor 4:6, 9); and to Silvanus and Timothy, who are described as “apostles of Christ” (1 Th 1:1; 2:6).

Horn, Siegfried H., Seventh-day Adventist Bible Dictionary, (Washington, D.C.: Review and Herald Publishing Association) 1979.




The above also includes Barnabas, Apollos, Silvanus, and Timothy as apostles.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Apostleship #74551
05/28/06 01:24 AM
05/28/06 01:24 AM
Will  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
Thanks for clarifying what I was trying to say. An Apostle is one who has seen Christ, and also sent by Christ personally. The wierd thing I have noticed is that the word Apostle in the concordance is the same word usage, even when referring to Christ ?! However Christ was sent by the Father so it is appropriate, correct me if I am wrong in that.
God Bless,
Will

Re: Apostleship #74552
05/28/06 02:55 AM
05/28/06 02:55 AM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,123
Nova Scotia, Canada
I never thought of Christ before as an apostle, but as the Saviour.

I understand an apostle as a person who both seen Christ and was sent by Christ.

Christ, the Son, was sent by God, the Father, to reveal His true character that had been confused by the deceptions of the devil, and to become the Saviour of the world.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Apostleship #74553
05/28/06 06:10 AM
05/28/06 06:10 AM
Will  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
Christ as our Apostle is found in Hebrews Chapter3. It is interesting, and I had read that a long time ago, but seeing it again was refreshing.
I think I will read more as to why He is called our Apostle, not that I have a problem with that, and if I did then it would be my problem, but I am teachable and willing to learn and grow.
God Bless,
Will

Re: Apostleship #74554
05/28/06 10:17 PM
05/28/06 10:17 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline OP
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Here are some bible passages describeing apostleship I found interesting:
Quote:

Luk 6:12 And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.
Luk 6:13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;




Quote:

Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name;
Rom 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:




Quote:

1Co 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
1Co 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
1Co 4:8 Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you.
1Co 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
1Co 4:10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honorable, but we are despised.
1Co 4:11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwelling place;
1Co 4:12 And labor, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
1Co 4:13 Being defamed, we entreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
1Co 4:14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
1Co 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.




Quote:

2Co 11:10 As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia.
2Co 11:11 Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth.
2Co 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.




Quote:

2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
2Co 12:11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.
2Co 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.




Quote:

ph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Eph 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.




Quote:

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:



Quote:

1Ti 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Ti 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
1Ti 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.




Quote:

Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Heb 3:2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
Heb 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honor than the house.
Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.




Quote:

Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labor, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:



I think it is safe to say that it takes a humble man to be apointed to be an apostle.

/Thomas


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Apostleship #74555
05/28/06 10:31 PM
05/28/06 10:31 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline OP
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Concerning Jesus as an apostle, here are some commentary info:

John Wesley
Quote:

Heb 3:1 - The heavenly calling - God calls from heaven, and to heaven, by the gospel. Consider the Apostle - The messenger of God, who pleads the cause of God with us. And High Priest - Who pleads our cause with God. Both are contained in the one word Mediator. He compares Christ, as an Apostle, with Moses; as a Priest, with Aaron. Both these offices, which Moses and Aaron severally bore, he bears together, and far more eminently. Of our profession - The religion we profess.




Robertsons word pictures
Quote:

The Apostle and High Priest of our confession (ton apostolon kai archierea tēs homologias hēmōn). In descriptive apposition with Iēsoun and note the single article ton. This is the only time in the N.T. that Jesus is called apostolos, though he often used apostellō of God’s sending him forth as in Joh_17:3 (apesteilas). This verb is used of Moses as sent by God (Exo_3:10). Moffatt notes that apostolos is Ionic for presbeutēs, “not a mere envoy, but an ambassador or representative sent with powers.” The author has already termed Jesus high priest (Heb_2:17). For homologia (confession) see 2Co_9:13; 1Ti_6:12. These Hebrew Christians had confessed Jesus as their Apostle and High Priest. They do not begin to understand what Jesus is and means if they are tempted to give him up. The word runs through Hebrews with an urgent note for fidelity (Heb_4:14; Heb_10:23). See homologeō (homon, same, legō, say), to say the same thing, to agree, to confess, to profess.





Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Apostleship #74556
06/04/06 09:52 AM
06/04/06 09:52 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline OP
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Does any of this information add weight to Ellen being an apostle or not?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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