Mark, I like the way you throw insults then immediately warn, "Please don't send an insult back in my direction." This is priceless.

Yes Mark, I agree, the Bible teaches that man has a spirit within, which you referred to as character. A man is known by his spirit. We might call an unkind man 'mean-spirited'. Just as "God is a Spirit" (John 4:24), He is also a physical being. The "Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool" (Daniel 7:9).

Christ, the only begotten Son of God, "the express image of his (Father's) person" (Hebrews 1:3) also has a Spirit and a body.

Man, created in the image of the Father & Son, likewise has spirit and body. "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness" (Genesis 1:26) "In the beginning, man was created in the likeness of God, not only in character, but in form and feature." Great Controversy 644-45. "When Adam came from the Creator's hand, he bore, in his physical, mental, and spiritual nature, a likeness to his maker." Education 15.

My only sure hope will come from the Bible definition of 'spirit'. "God designs that men shall not decide from impulse, but from the weight of evidence, carefully comparing scripture with scripture." Desire of Ages 458. It is certain that God's people of old understood the meaning of 'spirit', as did those of Christ's day. Why are God's professed people today in confusion?

Leroy Froom makes a "frank personal confession" in 'Movement of Destiny'. Forty years after the fact, Froom, noted SDA historian and author admits the sources for his book on the Holy Spirit, 'The Coming of the Comforter'. " I was compelled to search out a score of valuable books written by men outside our faith." - Movement of Destiny, p.322. He also presented the fruit of his research (from Pentecostals and others) in a series of studies he gave in 1927-28 to SDA ministerial institutes throughout North America. He wrote to a colleague of his experience "You cannot imagine how I was pummeled by some of the old timers because I pressed on the personality of the Holy Spirit as the Third Person of the Godhead....But the book has come to be generally accepted as standard." - Letter to Dr. O.H. Christenson Oct. 27, 1960.

Gordon

I liked your comments Gordon on the evidence that even the Father and Son have a body.

On our achieving unborrowed immortality, while we become partakers of the divine nature, I see no evidence that we ever enter a sphere of unborrowed eternal existence. The four highest archangels who stand in God's immediate presence pictured in Revelation never have any life but what is borrowed. The river of life is pictured in scripture as always issuing from the throne of God. All living things are sustained by borrowing their life from Him.

It is looking like this area of doctrine is gaining the attention of people and it is showing signs of being in a state of flux. We need to be careful in our posts, thorough in our study and prayerful.

NOTICE:
As kubuli is actually a second registration of Darius, which is a direct violation of our forum rules, kubuli has been banned from any further activity in any forum of MSDAOL, therefore, there will not be any further replies under the username of kubuli.

It seems that all banned members were reactivated as a result of conversion, another glitch caused by conversion from UBB Classics to UBB Threads.

While Sister White wrote that "spirit" in Eccl. 12:7 means "character" it should be obvious from the context that it is primarily referring to the "breath of life". God "gave" us the breath of life - not character. Yes, our characters are preserved in the mind of God and restored to us in the resurrection, and Eccl. 12:7 includes this meaning, but the primary meaning refers to the breath of life. Also, the word "spirit" means many other things - attitude, disposition, intention, etc.

Rosangela, on the borrowed and unborrowed life of Christ, I agree with your approach to leave open the door for both possibilities.

On the final words of Christ you wrote:

Quote:

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Mark,

Commenting on the final words of Jesus, Ellen White says:

“He is acquainted with the character of his Father; He understands his justice, his mercy, and his great love; in submission He commends Himself to God." {BEcho, September 15, 1892 par. 3}

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When EGW says "He commends Himself to God" isn’t she saying that Christ in faith committed His spirit, His identity to God. The final words of Christ are a window for us on His final, crowing act of faith. The DA indicates that it was this victory that was the capstone of all the acts of faith of Christ; it was the final act that gave Him compete victory in His life’s battle with the devil and sin. Her description in the DA on the final words of Christ is saturated with inspiration. If we could pick one part of His passion as the moment of complete victory this would be it. This is the very head waters of where the healing stream flowing from Calvary's mountain originates. With that in mind, it is worth looking closely at what the import of His final words were.

This is kind of an interesting thread. It's looking to me like no two of us completely agree, although much of what John H. wrote I agreed with.

I'd like to return to my question of some time back. How can divinity by unconscious? Even voluntarily? That doesn't make any sense to me. Could God the Father do this? Voluntarily be unconscious? The Holy Spirit as well? Can they take naps?

Regarding the life of Christ being underived, she also said of Him that He was "Jehovah, the self-existent One." Even though we could say that we also possess life, unoriginal, unborrowed, underived in the sense of receiving the life of God through faith, we could still not say of ourselves that we are "Jehovah, the self-existent One." We are not self-existent, so there is a difference in the sense in which Christ had life "unoriginal, unborrowed, and underived" and the sense in which we have it.