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Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. #79668
10/09/06 06:44 PM
10/09/06 06:44 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
“By what means shall the young man repress his evil propensities, and develop that which is noble and good in his character? Let him heed the words, ‘Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.’ Here is a principle that is to underlie every motive, thought, and act. Unholy passions must be crucified. They will clamor for indulgence, but God has implanted in the heart high and holy purposes and desires, and these need not be debased. It is only when we refuse to submit to the control of reason and conscience that we are dragged down. Paul declared, ‘I can do all things through Christ.’” (GW 127, 128)

“Truth, precious truth, is sanctifying in its influence. The sanctification of the soul by the operation of the Holy Spirit is the implanting of Christ’s nature in humanity. It is the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ revealed in character, and the grace of Christ brought into active exercise in good works. Thus the character is transformed more and more perfectly after the image of Christ in righteousness and true holiness. There are broad requirements in divine truth stretching out into one line after another of good works. The truths of the gospel are not unconnected; uniting they form one string of heavenly jewels, as in the personal work of Christ, and like threads of gold they run through the whole of Christian work and experience.

“Christ is the complete system of truth. He says, ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life.’ All true believers center in Christ, their character is irradiated by Christ; all meet in Christ, and circulate about Christ. Truth comes from Heaven to purify and cleanse the human agent from every moral defilement. It leads to benevolent action, to kind, tender, thoughtful love toward the needy, the distressed, the suffering. This is practical obedience to the words of Christ. (3SM 198, 199)

Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. #79669
10/09/06 10:49 PM
10/09/06 10:49 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:

The sentence before in the quote says that we are to reflect the light of God to others. The light is not ours. In doing good we are reflecting His goodness. Our righteousness is borrowed in a real sense. The moon and planets that have no light of their own, yet next to the sun are the brightest objects in the sky.




I agree with the reflected light illustration (pun intended). When you speak of borrowed righteousness, do you mean anything other than that our righteousness is not inherent or innate? If you say "borrowed," that conveys the implication of something which is to be returned, which is not really ours. But Christ is "the Lord our righteousness," given (not lent) to us.

I'm not getting a sense that we're disagreeing here; it seems just semantical to me.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. #79670
10/09/06 11:04 PM
10/09/06 11:04 PM
Tom  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Nice find on the poem.

Quote:

Lord, forgive these words of mine
What have I that is not Thine?
Whatsoe'er I fain would boast
Needs Thy pitying pardon most.
Thou, O Elder Brother! who
In Thy flesh our trial knew,
Thou, who hast been touched by these
Our most sad infirmities,
Thou alone the gulf canst span
In the dual heart of man,
And between the soul and sense
Reconcile all difference,
Change the dream of me and mine
For the truth of Thee and Thine,
And, through chaos, doubt, and strife,
Interfuse Thy calm of life.
Haply, thus by Thee renewed,
In Thy borrowed goodness good,
Some sweet morning yet in God's
Dim, veonian periods,
Joyful I shall wake to see
Those I love who rest in Thee,
And to them in Thee allied
Shall my soul be satisfied.





A little snipet of the poem. I tried googling this, and all I got was the EGW quote! I don't know what I was googling, because this time I found a bit more. Interesting, a site quoting this poem had this ending to it:

Quote:

So we read the prayer of him Who, with John of Labadie, Trod, of old, the oozy rim Of the Zuyder Zee. Thus did Andrew Rykman pray. Are we wiser, better grown, That we may not, in our day, Make his prayer our own?(http://www.gutenberg.org)




The other "borrowed goodness" quote was interesting too.

I googled "borrowed righteousness" a bit, but didn't find anything interesting.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. #79671
10/10/06 04:18 PM
10/10/06 04:18 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Quote:

Tom, please understand that I am making a distinction between Jesus' implanted "traits" of character and developing them into "character" thereafter. Do you see the difference?



Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. [Re: Mountain Man] #79853
10/11/06 06:45 PM
10/11/06 06:45 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Does anyone else, besides myself, believe that the following quotes teach us that we are born again fully equipped with all of God's righteous traits of character? that not one is missing? that we do not accumulate them gradually after we are born again? Or, am I the only one?

DA 676
When we live by faith on the Son of God, the fruits of the Spirit will be seen in our lives; not one will be missing. {DA 676.4}

COL 330
All righteous attributes of character dwell in God as a perfect, harmonious whole, and every one who receives Christ as a personal Saviour is privileged to possess these attributes. {COL 330.2}

COL 98, 99
New thoughts, new feelings, new motives, are implanted. ... We are endowed with traits of character that enable us to do service for God. {COL 98.3}

TDG 186
The heart must be cleansed from all impurity, man must be fitted with traits of character that will enable him to do service for God in any line. ... New thoughts, new feelings, new motives are implanted. {TDG 186.1}

Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. [Re: Mountain Man] #79858
10/11/06 11:30 PM
10/11/06 11:30 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The following two quotes also confirm the fact that we must crucify "sin in all its forms" before we can experience the miracle of rebirth, before we can enter into union with Christ. And yet the majority of SDAs that I know reject this truth. Why?

5T 46, 47
To effect the salvation of men, God employs various agencies. He speaks to them by His word and by His ministers, and He sends by the Holy Spirit messages of warning, reproof, and instruction. These means are designed to enlighten the understanding of the people, to reveal to them their duty and their sins, and the blessings which they may receive, to awaken in them a sense of spiritual want, that they may go to Christ and find in Him the grace they need. But many choose to follow their own way instead of God's way. They are not reconciled to God, neither can be, until self is crucified and Christ lives in the heart by faith. {5T 46.3}

Every individual, by his own act, either puts Christ from him by refusing to cherish His spirit and follow His example, or he enters into a personal union with Christ by self-renunciation, faith, and obedience. We must, each for himself, choose Christ, because He has first chosen us. This union with Christ is to be formed by those who are naturally at enmity with Him. It is a relation of utter dependence, to be entered into by a proud heart. This is close work, and many who profess to be followers of Christ know nothing of it. They nominally accept the Saviour, but not as the sole ruler of their hearts. {5T 46.4}

Some feel their need of the atonement, and with the recognition of this need, and the desire for a change of heart, a struggle begins. To renounce their own will, perhaps their chosen objects of affection or pursuit, requires an effort, at which many hesitate and falter and turn back. Yet this battle must be fought by every heart that is truly converted. We must war against temptations without and within. We must gain the victory over self, crucify the affections and lusts; and then begins the union of the soul with Christ. As the dry and apparently lifeless branch is grafted into the living tree, so may we become living branches of the True Vine. And the fruit which was borne by Christ will be borne by all His followers. After this union is formed, it can be preserved only by continual, earnest, painstaking effort. Christ exercises His power to preserve and guard this sacred tie, and the dependent, helpless sinner must act his part with untiring energy, or Satan by his cruel, cunning power will separate him from Christ. {5T 47.1}

Every Christian must stand on guard continually, watching every avenue of the soul where Satan might find access. He must pray for divine help and at the same time resolutely resist every inclination to sin. By courage, by faith, by persevering toil, he can conquer. But let him remember that to gain the victory Christ must abide in him and he in Christ. {5T 47.2}

5T 231
A union with Christ by living faith is enduring; every other union must perish. Christ first chose us, paying an infinite price for our redemption; and the true believer chooses Christ as first and last and best in everything. But this union costs us something. It is a union of utter dependence, to be entered into by a proud being. All who form this union must feel their need of the atoning blood of Christ. They must have a change of heart. They must submit their own will to the will of God. There will be a struggle with outward and internal obstacles. There must be a painful work of detachment as well as a work of attachment. Pride, selfishness, vanity, worldliness--sin in all its forms--must be overcome if we would enter into a union with Christ. The reason why many find the Christian life so deplorably hard, why they are so fickle, so variable, is that they try to attach themselves to Christ without first detaching themselves from these cherished idols. {5T 231.3}

After the union with Christ has been formed, it can be preserved only by earnest prayer and untiring effort. We must resist, we must deny, we must conquer self. Through the grace of Christ, by courage, by faith, by watchfulness, we may gain the victory. {5T 231.4}

Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. [Re: Mountain Man] #80575
11/02/06 03:21 PM
11/02/06 03:21 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
How important is this topic?

Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. [Re: Mountain Man] #80599
11/03/06 11:32 AM
11/03/06 11:32 AM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
It's vital. A good part of the forum is distracted and focused on the personalities of certain prominant television evangalists right now. This can't help but take their focus from Christ. If the forum was dealing in facts and acting on principle it wouldn't be suffering the way it is. As it stands now, a partisan spirit is undermining the spirituality of the forum and the participants - not unlike the political divisions that were fomented in 1888 when many Adventists were quick to seize on the faults of the messengers and miss the message.

Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. [Re: Charity] #80604
11/03/06 03:14 PM
11/03/06 03:14 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
That's too bad. I wasn't aware of how derailing the 3ABN issue had become. Hopefully Jesus will be successful in getting things back on track. Hearsay and sketchy facts are recipes for apostasy, eh?

At any rate, are you ready to resume discussing this topic? What do you think about the quotes and questions I raised in my last 4 posts? Are they relevant?

Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. [Re: Mountain Man] #80609
11/03/06 04:39 PM
11/03/06 04:39 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
More important than figuring out what's wrong with people, we must figure out what's right with Christ and how to emulate it in our own lives. To that end, I'm ready to continue this thread. But I have to back up and read from the beginning.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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