Thank you MM.

Pastor Johann: All of the points are excellent and of great value. My questioning is merely to stir up our pure (some may spell it "poor") minds to consider the options.

Will such a list assure that we are on the right track?

MM: It is the truth that sets us free – not lists. If we read and heed the truth we are free to be like Jesus – kind, loving, patient, compassionate, obedient, manifesting the fruits of the Spirit more and more unto the glorious day of Jesus Christ our Lord, thereby vindicating the kingdom and character of God our Father.

2. Men must go forth reproving, rebuking every manner of evil. . . let the message be heard through human agents rebuking carelessness, backsliding, and sin, that the people may be brought to repentance and confession of sin.

MM: How well does reproving and rebuking sinning go over in the church nowadays?

3. Never seek to cover sin; for in the message of rebuke, Christ is to be proclaimed as the first and the last, He who is all in all to the soul.

MM: Amen! Reprovers and rebukers should never divorce Jesus from their messages.

4. His power awaits the demand of those who would overcome.

MM: Amen! The power of God Almighty is at our disposal so that we can live in harmony with His will and way.

5. The [human] reprover is to animate his hearers so that they shall strive for the mastery.

MM: We must learn to master ourselves, to subdue and subject our unholy traits and tendencies to a sanctified will and mind, to recognize and resist the sinful thought and feelings that bombard us from within and from without ceaselessly.

6. He is to encourage them to struggle for deliverance from every sinful practice, to be free from every corrupt habit, even if his denial of self is like taking the right eye, or separating the right arm from the body.

MM: Reprovers and rebukers must not only help sinners understand their sinful practices and corrupt habits, but they must also encourage them to, by the grace of God, keep them under the subjection of a sanctified will and mind, to not allow them to resurface, to be manifested in their words or behaviour.

7. No concession or compromise is to be made to evil habits or sinful practices.

MM: Amen!

8. He is not to be ignorant as to what are right practices in eating and drinking, and in all the habits of life. The Lord designs that His human agents shall act as rational, accountable beings in every respect.

MM: Ignorance is not bliss – the truth is, that is, living the truth in our daily life is bliss and peace.

9. We cannot afford to neglect one ray of light God has given.

MM: Amen!

10. To be sluggish in our practice of those things which require diligence is to commit sin.

MM: God forbid, that is, God forbids us to commit sin. All the power in heaven and earth is ours for the asking, ours for the taking, ours for the making – the making of righteousness and true holiness. To God be the glory.

So, what would come first?

Faith that lead to works, or, works that lead to faith?

In His love.

that is an interesting question.

i remember when i first decided to keep the sabbath. i would say it was because i was supposed to-works. i would say that it led to faith. in that particular case "works that led to faith".

i will have to think if that has always been true, or if it has been a combination of the two.

your posts have given me some great thoughts to stop and consider and search my heart.

They happen simultaneously. They are inseparable. Apart from one another they cease to be what they are when united. Faith without works ceases to be faith. And, works without faith ceases to be works. This is, of course, looking at it from God's perspective. Which is how we need to view it.

Rather than create a new topic, I am resurrecting this one.

I came across this while reading through the book, Patriarchs & Prophets:

True faith, which relies wholly upon Christ, will be manifested by obedience to all the requirements of God. From Adam's day to the present time the great controversy has been concerning obedience to God's law. In all ages there have been those who claimed a right to the favor of God even while they were disregarding some of His commands. But the Scriptures declare that by works is "faith made perfect;" and that, without the works of obedience, faith "is dead." James 2:22, 17. He that professes to know God, "and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:4. {PP 73.2}

Let's consider what it means for works to make faith perfect and a lack of works to cause the death of faith. In Luke 17:5 there's an interesting request made to Jesus- "And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith."

The answer was-

6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
7 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

The lesson presented is that we have a Master and have been given both a commission an a law. Obeying these, not as a gift of works to God for which we would deserve a payment (see Romans 4:4), but out of a sense of duty to the God whom we love and choose to serve will increase our faith.

It's designed to be a cycle that eternally benefits us. Faith produces works which increases faith which produces more works. Without the works the cycle breaks and, rather than increasing, like any muscle that goes unused, faith withers and dies. Without the faith, works are only an imitating drudgery because works born of faith are faith put into action.

"He that professes to know God, "and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:4.

Too often we focus on the last part of that verse and fall into a "works" program trying to keep God's commandments by works.
But notice the first part --

He that professes to know God...

That is the point we really need to concentrate on. Are we seeking to know God; not just have knowledge about Him, but to know Him on a personal, relationship basis?

Or is our knowledge of God just a profession, an intellectual acquiesce but not an actual "knowing" Him?

And yes --
"True faith, which relies wholly upon Christ, will be manifested by obedience to all the requirements of God."

It's also true that God invites us to "taste and see".
Ps. 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

A new believer may wonder "how can I give up my worldly way of life?" Instead of telling them "you better or you will be lost" -- invite them "taste and see that the LORD is good"
Try it and see -- not to earn anything, but to experience the blessings that come from trusting in Him.
God invites us to prove for ourselves the reality of His Word, the truth of His promises.

Trust and follow --- He will never leave you.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with Him, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin.



Faith claims God's promises, and brings forth fruit in obedience.
To abide in faith is to walk humbly with the Lord, to appropriate His promises, and apply them to all occasions, believing that God will work out His own plans and purposes in your heart and life.

What could be more reliable than pure faith in God's promises? Take the blessed promises of God and apply them to yourself, bearing your whole weight upon them? This is faith.