TE: If so, think of the choices the Jimmy Stewart character made, sacrificing himself for the good of others. These weren't sins. Nothing in inspiration teaches this.

MM: “But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.” (Isa 64:6) “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.” (Rom 3:10)

TE: If what you are asserting were true (that a single sin causes you to be lost) then Ellen White's statement could not be true.

MM: A single unconfessed, unforsaken sin makes us lost. Of course, we can repent and be saved. But if we refuse to repent, we are lost.

TE: This is an interesting statement. Sinning does not separate us from Jesus.

MM: We cannot sin while we are choosing to abide in Jesus. We must first stop abiding in Him before we can commit a known sin. Sinning is what we do because we are separated from Jesus. It is not what separates us. Continuing in sin continues our separation. Repentance is what restores us to Jesus.

TE: According to you, this translation implies that born again believers will continue to sin, yet the verse says exactly the opposite!

MM: It implies that born again believers 1) will, from time to time, sin, but 2) they will not continue sinning once they realize they are sinning. Instead, 3) they will repent and stop sinning as soon as they are aware of it.

The KJV, on the other hand, states they do not and cannot commit a known sin while abiding in Jesus. I spelled it out verse by verse in my last post.

1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Mike, would you happen to have the proper skills to figgure out what the greek text says in this passage?

TE: If so, think of the choices the Jimmy Stewart character made, sacrificing himself for the good of others. These weren't sins. Nothing in inspiration teaches this.

MM: “But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.” (Isa 64:6) “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.” (Rom 3:10)

The first verse is dealing with self-righteousness, trying to merit God's favor. The second statement is making the case that no one is perfectly righteous. All have sinned. This is a very different thing than saying that a person can do nothing but sin. Neither of these texts is discussing your point of view.

TE: If what you are asserting were true (that a single sin causes you to be lost) then Ellen White's statement could not be true.

MM: A single unconfessed, unforsaken sin makes us lost. Of course, we can repent and be saved. But if we refuse to repent, we are lost.

She wrote that an occasional misdeed or occasional good deed does not comprise character. I just restated what she said, which viewpoint I consider to be perfectly reasonable and in harmony with what we see in Scripture.

TE: This is an interesting statement. Sinning does not separate us from Jesus.

MM: We cannot sin while we are choosing to abide in Jesus. We must first stop abiding in Him before we can commit a known sin. Sinning is what we do because we are separated from Jesus. It is not what separates us. Continuing in sin continues our separation. Repentance is what restores us to Jesus.

You are continuing to assert that sinning does not separate us from God, correct? If I found a statement that said "sinning separates us from God," would that make any difference? I expect the answer is "no," because you would respond that the statement is using "sin" or "separate" in some other sense than you are.

TE: According to you, this translation implies that born again believers will continue to sin, yet the verse says exactly the opposite!

MM: It implies that born again believers 1) will, from time to time, sin, but 2) they will not continue sinning once they realize they are sinning. Instead, 3) they will repent and stop sinning as soon as they are aware of it.

The verse says that no one who is born again will continue to sin. According to you, what this is implies is that one who is born again will continue to sin. That's weird reasoning.

How you get 1), 2) and 3) from the simple statement that "no one who is born of God will continue to sin" is odd too.


The KJV, on the other hand, states they do not and cannot commit a known sin while abiding in Jesus. I spelled it out verse by verse in my last post.

This isn't right either. That's not what the KJV says. (Take another look, and you can see how what it says differs from what you are saying it says.)

TE: This is a very different thing than saying that a person can do nothing but sin. Neither of these texts is discussing your point of view.

MM: Tom, are you implying that an unbelieving sinner can do good works? What is the origin and source of his good works? Paul wrote:

Romans
7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

TE: How you get 1), 2) and 3) from the simple statement that "no one who is born of God will continue to sin" is odd too.

MM: Tom, please help me understand the differences between the NIV and the KJV. Thank you.

1. What is the difference between “continue to sin” and “doth not commit sin”?

2. What is the difference between “he cannot go on sinning” and “he cannot sin”?

1 John (NIV)
3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

1 John (KJV)
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

TV: Mike, would you happen to have the proper skills to figgure out what the greek text says in this passage?

MM: Yes. I have the same sources available to me that are available to you.

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin." He feels that he is the purchase of the blood of Christ and bound by the most solemn vows to glorify God in his body and in his spirit, which are God's. The love of sin and the love of self are subdued in him. He daily asks: "What shall I render unto the Lord for all His benefits toward me?" "Lord, what wilt Thou have me to do?"

The true Christian will never complain that the yoke of Christ is galling to the neck. He accounts the service of Jesus as the truest freedom. The law of God is his delight. Instead of seeking to bring down the divine commands, to accord with his deficiencies, he is constantly striving to rise to the level of their perfection.

It is through faith in Jesus Christ that the truth is accepted in the heart and the human agent is purified and cleansed. Jesus was "wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." Is it possible to be healed, while knowingly committing sin?

No; it is genuine faith that says, I know that I have committed sin, but that Jesus has pardoned my sin; and hereafter I will resist temptation in and through His might. "Every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure." He has an abiding principle in the soul, that enables him to overcome temptation.

"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not." God has power to keep the soul who is in Christ, when that soul is under temptation. "Whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." That is, every one who is a true believer is sanctified through the truth, in life and character. "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth {not professeth to do} righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; . . . because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil." Now mark where the distinction is made: "Whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither is he that loveth not his brother." "My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth."

TV: 1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

MM: Thomas, do you see a discrepancy between what I posted and the verse you quoted?

TE: This is a very different thing than saying that a person can do nothing but sin. Neither of these texts is discussing your point of view.

MM: Tom, are you implying that an unbelieving sinner can do good works? What is the origin and source of his good works?

I'm "implying" just what I said. People, before they are born again, can make right decisions, in accordance with God's will. God alone is good. He is the source for all good, whether for unbelivers or not.

Paul wrote:

Romans
7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

TE: How you get 1), 2) and 3) from the simple statement that "no one who is born of God will continue to sin" is odd too.

MM: Tom, please help me understand the differences between the NIV and the KJV. Thank you.

1. What is the difference between “continue to sin” and “doth not commit sin”?

2. What is the difference between “he cannot go on sinning” and “he cannot sin”?

1 John (NIV)
3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

1 John (KJV)
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The difference is in you, in how you are interpreting the versions. You, for some odd reason, are interpreting the NIV, which says, "No one who is born of God will continue to sin" to mean "One who is born of God will continue to sin."

There's a verse which reads, "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit." (Matt. 7:18). This doesn't mean that no good tree ever in the history of man has produced a bad fruit, but rather that, as a general practice, good trees to not produce bad fruit. Indeed, it is the fact that they, as a general practice, produce good fruit that makes them good trees. Similarly one who is born of God cannot sin. In the same way that a good tree cannot produce bad fruit. The born again person is not characterized by a life of sin. It's not saying that a born again is not able to commit a sin.

Did you catch your error regarding what you said the King James version says and what it actually says?

Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

It seems to me that this verse tells us what John means by "His commandments". I thought that was worth pointing out.