Pastor Johann,

That's great, but I do not equate levity with laughter. Do you?



So you see, there is such a thing as innocent laughter.

Even so, that does not give us the authority to dismiss one jot or tittle from inspiration. In light of the positive statements about laughter, how are we to understand the negative statements about levity, joking, jesting, etc?

Here's one from my files that is not commonly known:

Heavy, isn't it?

You related an anecdote from ML Andreasen about EGW laughing. I put up an anecdote from 5BIO about EGW laughing. But now we have an inspired statement about Christ NOT laughing.

Shall we look to inspired counsel or to the actions of men/women? If we are looking at actions, have we been given an example other than Christ?

=====

Creating a new topic out of this post and subsequent posts. - Daryl

Personally I think we must, like you indicate, compare one with the other. It is evident that Ellen never condemned innocent laughter. She states "I do not say it is a sin to laugh on any occasion." So who are you or I to say she says it is a sin? I understand her as claiming we must not let one quotation of hers stand alone, if we find something else elsewhere which seems to contradict. She also stated that it is not the words that are inspired, but the writer who is inspired, and then tries in her own human language to tell what God has revealed.

This is not merely my opinion, but is the counsel EGW herself has given.

=====

Subject name change only. - Daryl

She does not condemn innocent laughter, but there is laughter that she condemns. I posted a 5T quote where she says so. How do we tell one kind from the other?



I agree. But how do we put this into practice? Do we follow what she does or what she says?

Peter wrote a couple of inspired books. But does that mean we should do as he did when the Jews came to eat? Was Paul wrong in rebuking him?

When I preach, I try to always stick to the teachings found in the Bible and SOP. I try to set before the people the high calling to which we have been called. And when such a calling is found in inspired writings, I feel fully authorized to proclaim it as loud as I can.

But I must confess that I do not always reach that high calling. No matter the lofty heights to which I aspire, the fact is that I often fall far short.

Does that mean that I don't mean what I say in the pulpit? Or that my actions should mitigate the force of my words? Certainly, power in my life will give power to my words, but the truth is the truth whether or not I obey it myself.

Is it possible that EGW laid down a God-given principle, which she sometimes failed to fulfill?



Is it possible that EGW sinned?

=====

Subject name change only. - Daryl

We have a lot to learn from the Pharisees!!!!!!! If you got an earache on Friday and put a cotton pad with oil into the ear you could still wear it on Sabbath. But if it fell out of the ear on Sabbath you must not pick it up and put it back into the ear, because that was lifing a burden on Sabbath. But if needed you could put a cotton pad with no oil in it on Sabbath. That was below the mark of a burden.

So why don't we in these modern times use a volume meter and have one of our saints declare how laud the laughter can be in order to be innocent? Is there any other way we could determine if it is sin or not? Any other practical solution?

=====

Subject name change only. - Daryl

Whats the difference between telling humorous stories and joking?

Main Entry: 1joke
1 a : something said or done to provoke laughter; especially : a brief oral narrative with a climactic humorous twist Maybe we(you?) are closer to the sour Mrs Rasmussen than to the happy Mrs White? Maybe we do as the jews did with sabbath. Since making fun of others is wrong, we must guard against it and the easiest way to do so is making sure we are not having fun at all.
This seems illustrated in this sentence that I copy from post 84180 in this thread. Some laughter is wrong so lets for heavens sake not laugh at all.

"She does not condemn innocent laughter, but there is laughter that she condemns. I posted a 5T quote where she says so. How do we tell one kind from the other?"
Heavier than even Ellen (if the MR collection is in context) or the compilers (if it is a mere quote collection) would have it.

He [Jesus] is the joy and light of the world. "He that followeth me shall not walk in darkness" John 8:12. Heaven is all light, peace, and joy. Jesus says, "Ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full" John 16:24. {6MR 90.1}

Jesus had grief, but He did not carry it in His face. Wherever He moved blessings followed in His track. Joy and gladness were imparted to the children of men. Children loved to be in His presence. He took them in His arms. Christ was an earnest, thoughtful man, an intense worker for the good of others, but He was never frowning or gloomy. The calm, steady light of a holy peace was expressed in His life and character. His presence hushed levity and none could be in His presence without feeling that life was earnest, serious, charged with a great responsibility. The more I know of Jesus' character the more cheerful I am."--Ms 1, 1867, p. 8. ("Reminiscent Account of James White's Sickness and Recovery," written in early 1880's.) {6MR 90.2}

Not to speak of the bible, to quote a few:

Jesus told a parable concluding it saying;
Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Luk 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

agalliao
1) to exult, rejoice exceedingly, be exceeding glad
We should strive to read the entire context of inspired counsel rather than settle for the crumbs that suit our personal fancy.

Quoted from the last part of post 84180;
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.
Rom 7:7 ¶ What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 ¶ Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Doesnt this describe the same experience as you where giving in this post?

Also: 1Cr 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. It is sertain that Ellen sinned. But did she sin by laughing and being joyfull? You have no good case for that IMO.

Psa 5:11 But let all those that put their trust in thee rejoice: let them ever shout for joy, because thou defendest them: let them also that love thy name be joyful in thee.

Psa 32:11 Be glad in the LORD, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all [ye that are] upright in heart.

=====

Subject name change only. - Daryl

As you can see, I created this new topic from many of those posts that were once in the Sabbath School forum topic, therefore, this topic can be continued here.

Let me give my own thoughts on this.

I feel it is OK to laugh as long as we are not cutting anybody or anything down from our laughter, however, sad to say, we are sometimes caught up in that kind of laughter, therefore, we need to be on our guard.

Hmmm... I think I got a totally different message from the SOP quote than you did. I understand the important distinction to be one of context, not volume. Perhaps you are thinking of a quote where the SOP specifies how many decibels are allowed, one of which I am unaware?

Going to back to the quote I do know.



The SOP says that there is laughter that is acceptable in a common place, but not in God's sanctuary. Are you saying that it is impossible to make such a distinction? Or that it would be Pharisaical to do so?

In my younger days, I used to tell jokes in my sermons. I was told that it was a good way to build rapport with the listeners. And since levity comes naturally to me, I found it very easy. Today, I exert great efforts to avoid the spirit of levity, especially while I preach.

I'm curious. Do you tell jokes during your sermons?

It is foolish to make a hypothesis when one has no data.

You ascribe sentiments to me which are foreign to my thinking. Here you are drawing false conclusions from my statements, when I am here ready to clarify myself. You would do well to ask, rather than to assert.



If you can so easily misrepresent my intentions and sentiments, what makes you think you can draw valid conclusions from the works of prophets long dead?