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Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. [Re: Mountain Man] #84252
01/19/07 03:06 PM
01/19/07 03:06 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
a) A born again person can choose not to abide in Jesus.
and
b) Not abiding in Jesus is sinning
means
c) A born again person can sin.

Since you agree with the logic, that means that c) is true if a) and b) are true. Do you agree with a) and b)? Or do you see either one of them as not being Biblical?

I would like to reword the formula:

a) Born again believers can choose not to abide in Jesus

b) Born again believers sin while they are not abiding in Jesus

c) Born again believers can sin

A + B = C

I agree with this formula. I believe it is biblical.

Ok. If a born again believer can sin, then why does John say a born again believer cannot sin?

Quote:
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:8, 9)


Not only does John say that a born again believer cannot sin, he characterizes such a person (one who commits sin) as being of the devil. That seems to be a pretty strong way to characterize a born again believer who momentarily stubles, stops abiding in Jesus for a time, and commits a sin, don't you think?

……………………..

Quote:
Can you think of any other things a person who is not born again can do which is not sin, other than confess sins that the Holy Spirit reveals? That is, are there any other things a person might respond to which the Holy Spirit is working on them with?

Not unless we include exceptions to the rule, like the natives who showed kindness to missionaries.

But all sorts of people show kindness to missionaries before being born again, not just natives. Non-born again people are genuinely kind routinely. Does a person have to be a native for his kindness towards a missionary to be counted as an exception?

I'm also curious as to why you think this is an exception. The Bible says that Jesus is the true light that lightens every one who comes into the world. That light lightens everyone. Not all that light is constantly rejected.

Consider someone like Muhatma Ghandi. Do you think he did nothing but sin his entire life? Were his teachings of meeting violence with kindness sin?


Quote:
1.Whenever you are confronted with an opponent. Conquer him with love.
2.There is nothing that wastes the body like worry, and one who has any faith in God should be ashamed to worry about anything whatsoever.
3.The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.
4.Nonviolence is a weapon of the strong.
5.Whenever you have truth it must be given with love, or the message and the messenger will be rejected.


These quotes appear to me to be evidence that the true Light was lightening him. Are these insights sin? Or could they be evidence that the Holy Spirit was working with him too?

(Another Ghandi quote I like: "What do I think of Western civilisation? I think it would be a very good idea.")


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. [Re: Tom] #84254
01/19/07 04:25 PM
01/19/07 04:25 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Quote:
Ok. If a born again believer can sin, then why does John say a born again believer cannot sin? Not only does John say that a born again believer cannot sin, he characterizes such a person (one who commits sin) as being of the devil. That seems to be a pretty strong way to characterize a born again believer who momentarily stubles, stops abiding in Jesus for a time, and commits a sin, don't you think?

From what I’ve read and studied about it, no, it isn’t too strong. It is the truth. We are either in Christ and free from sin or we are in Satan and full of sin. There is no neutral ground, no third option. “We are active agents for Christ or for the enemy.”

“If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” (Romans 8:9) “No man can serve two masters.” (Matthew 6:24) “None of us can occupy a neutral position; our influence will tell for or against. We are active agents for Christ or for the enemy. We either gather with Jesus or scatter abroad.” (4T 16)

Again, obviously John is not saying that born again believers lose the ability to choose to stop abiding in Jesus and to resume sinning. The context disallows such a conclusion.

Quote:
But all sorts of people show kindness to missionaries before being born again, not just natives. Non-born again people are genuinely kind routinely. Does a person have to be a native for his kindness towards a missionary to be counted as an exception?

Kindness is no guarantee a person is saved as an exception. Satan can be kind when it serves his purpose. “He will favor and prosper some in order to further his own designs. . . .” (GC 589) Only God knows the true motive behind kindnesses. Whether they are lost or saved is not up to good works, but up to God. Only He can make exceptions to the rule.

Quote:
I'm also curious as to why you think this is an exception. The Bible says that Jesus is the true light that lightens every one who comes into the world. That light lightens everyone. Not all that light is constantly rejected.

Consider someone like Muhatma Ghandi. Do you think he did nothing but sin his entire life? Were his teachings of meeting violence with kindness sin? These quotes appear to me to be evidence that the true Light was lightening him. Are these insights sin? Or could they be evidence that the Holy Spirit was working with him too?

Again, only God knows the true motive. What is the fruit of Gandhi’s life and works? Does it build up the kingdom of God? Does it lead people to the foot of the cross? Or, does it make people think they can be good enough without becoming a baptized member of the Remnant Church? "By their fruits ye shall know them." How many unbelievers have joined the SDA Church because of the life and works of Gandhi?

Quote:
Not unless we include exceptions to the rule, like the natives who showed kindness to missionaries. Of course this does not apply to those poor slaves who will not go to heaven.

I noticed you left out the part about the poor slaves Sister White wrote about. Why?

Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. [Re: Mountain Man] #84256
01/19/07 04:50 PM
01/19/07 04:50 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
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I am reposting this post because it got overlooked. The following inspired insights teach unequivocally that abiding in Jesus is what empowers born again believers to "go, and sin no more". Rebirth is not what empowers them not to sin.

Abiding in Jesus is what empowers them not to sin. So long as they continue to abide in Jesus they will not and cannot commit a known sin. "A mere profession of godliness is worthless. It is he that abideth in Christ that is a Christian." A born again believer is someone who is abiding in Jesus. When they are not abiding in Jesus they are "born again" only in name, which is "worthless".

.....................

Here is what the Bible says about “abiding in” Jesus:

Quote:
1 John
15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 John
2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

2 John
1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.


Here is what the SOP says about “abiding in” Jesus:

Quote:
John did not teach that salvation was to be earned by obedience; but that obedience was the fruit of faith and love. "Ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins," he said, "and in Him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him." 1 John 3:5, 6. If we abide in Christ, if the love of God dwells in the heart, our feelings, our thoughts, our actions, will be in harmony with the will of God. The sanctified heart is in harmony with the precepts of God's law. {AA 563.1}

The Holy Spirit seeks to abide in each soul. If He is welcomed as an honored guest, those who receive Him will be made complete in Christ. The good work begun will be finished; the holy thoughts, heavenly affections, and Christlike actions will take the place of impure thoughts, perverse sentiments, and rebellious acts. {CH 561.1}

Every Christian must stand on guard continually, watching every avenue of the soul where Satan might find access. He must pray for divine help and at the same time resolutely resist every inclination to sin. By courage, by faith, by persevering toil, he can conquer. But let him remember that to gain the victory Christ must abide in him and he in Christ. {AH 403.2}

There are only two classes in the world today, and only two classes will be recognized in the judgment--those who violate God's law and those who obey it. Christ gives the test by which to prove our loyalty or disloyalty. "If ye love Me," He says, "keep My commandments. . . . He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me. And he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him. . . . He that loveth Me not keepeth not My sayings; and the word which ye hear is not Mine, but the Father's which sent Me." "If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love; even as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love." John 14:15-24; 15:10. {COL 283.3}

This union with Christ, once formed, must be maintained. Christ said, "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in Me." This is no casual touch, no off-and-on connection. The branch becomes a part of the living vine. The communication of life, strength, and fruitfulness from the root to the branches is unobstructed and constant. Separated from the vine, the branch cannot live. No more, said Jesus, can you live apart from Me. The life you have received from Me can be preserved only by continual communion. Without Me you cannot overcome one sin, or resist one temptation. {DA 676.1}

"Abide in Me, and I in you." Abiding in Christ means a constant receiving of His Spirit, a life of unreserved surrender to His service. The channel of communication must be open continually between man and his God. As the vine branch constantly draws the sap from the living vine, so are we to cling to Jesus, and receive from Him by faith the strength and perfection of His own character. {DA 676.2}

The root sends its nourishment through the branch to the outermost twig. So Christ communicates the current of spiritual strength to every believer. So long as the soul is united to Christ, there is no danger that it will wither or decay. {DA 676.3}

The life of the vine will be manifest in fragrant fruit on the branches. "He that abideth in Me," said Jesus, "and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without Me ye can do nothing." When we live by faith on the Son of God, the fruits of the Spirit will be seen in our lives; not one will be missing. {DA 676.4}

"My Father is the husbandman. Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit He taketh away." While the graft is outwardly united with the vine, there may be no vital connection. Then there will be no growth or fruitfulness. So there may be an apparent connection with Christ without a real union with Him by faith. A profession of religion places men in the church, but the character and conduct show whether they are in connection with Christ. If they bear no fruit, they are false branches. Their separation from Christ involves a ruin as complete as that represented by the dead branch. "If a man abide not in Me," said Christ, "he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." {DA 676.5}

"And every branch that beareth fruit, He purgeth [pruneth] it, that it may bring forth more fruit." From the chosen twelve who had followed Jesus, one as a withered branch was about to be taken away; the rest were to pass under the pruning knife of bitter trial. Jesus with solemn tenderness explained the purpose of the husbandman. The pruning will cause pain, but it is the Father who applies the knife. He works with no wanton hand or indifferent heart. There are branches trailing upon the ground; these must be cut loose from the earthly supports to which their tendrils are fastening. They are to reach heavenward, and find their support in God. The excessive foliage that draws away the life current from the fruit must be pruned off. The overgrowth must be cut out, to give room for the healing beams of the Sun of Righteousness. The husbandman prunes away the harmful growth, that the fruit may be richer and more abundant. {DA 676.6}

"Herein is My Father glorified," said Jesus, "that ye bear much fruit." God desires to manifest through you the holiness, the benevolence, the compassion, of His own character. Yet the Saviour does not bid the disciples labor to bear fruit. He tells them to abide in Him. "If ye abide in Me," He says, "and My words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you." It is through the word that Christ abides in His followers. This is the same vital union that is represented by eating His flesh and drinking His blood. The words of Christ are spirit and life. Receiving them, you receive the life of the Vine. You live "by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matt. 4:4. The life of Christ in you produces the same fruits as in Him. Living in Christ, adhering to Christ, supported by Christ, drawing nourishment from Christ, you bear fruit after the similitude of Christ. {DA 677.1}

A mere profession of godliness is worthless. It is he that abideth in Christ that is a Christian. For "every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure." In every clime, in every nation, our youth should cooperate with God. The only way a person can be pure is to become like-minded with God. How can we know God?--By studying His Word. . . . {SD 297.2}

It is through faith in Jesus Christ that the truth is accepted in the heart and the human agent is purified and cleansed. Jesus was "wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." Is it possible to be healed, while knowingly committing sin?--No; it is genuine faith that says, I know that I have committed sin, but that Jesus has pardoned my sin; and hereafter I will resist temptation in and through His might. "Every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure." He has an abiding principle in the soul, that enables him to overcome temptation. {SD 297.3}

"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not." God has power to keep the soul who is in Christ, when that soul is under temptation. "Whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." That is, every one who is a true believer is sanctified through the truth, in life and character. "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth {not professeth to do} righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; . . . because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil." Now mark where the distinction is made: "Whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither is he that loveth not his brother." "My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth." {SD 297.4}


Both the Bible and the SOP teach that born again believers do not and cannot commit a known sin while abiding in Jesus. It does not mean they lose the ability to stop abiding in Jesus and resume sinning.

Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. [Re: Mountain Man] #84258
01/19/07 05:09 PM
01/19/07 05:09 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Ok. If a born again believer can sin, then why does John say a born again believer cannot sin? Not only does John say that a born again believer cannot sin, he characterizes such a person (one who commits sin) as being of the devil. That seems to be a pretty strong way to characterize a born again believer who momentarily stubles, stops abiding in Jesus for a time, and commits a sin, don't you think?

From what I’ve read and studied about it, no, it isn’t too strong. It is the truth. We are either in Christ and free from sin or we are in Satan and full of sin. There is no neutral ground, no third option. “We are active agents for Christ or for the enemy.”

Where does it say that an active agent for Christ cannot commit a known sin?

“If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” (Romans 8:9) “No man can serve two masters.” (Matthew 6:24) “None of us can occupy a neutral position; our influence will tell for or against. We are active agents for Christ or for the enemy. We either gather with Jesus or scatter abroad.” (4T 16)

Again, obviously John is not saying that born again believers lose the ability to choose to stop abiding in Jesus and to resume sinning. The context disallows such a conclusion.

The problem is you are misinterpreting what John means when he says that one cannot sin. The contradiction goes away once you understand "cannot sin" correctly. If you take "cannot sin" to mean "is unable to commit a sin" then you have the contradiction I've pointed out many times now. You have:

a)A born again believer can choose not to abide in Jesus.
b)Not abiding in Jesus is sinning.
c)Therefore a born again believer can sin.

So what do we conclude? We conclude that when John says a born again believer cannot sin, he doesn't mean that the believe is unable to commit a sin, but means something else, which has been my point all along. John cannot have in mind what you are suggesting, because that runs into the contradiction I've shown you.


Quote:
But all sorts of people show kindness to missionaries before being born again, not just natives. Non-born again people are genuinely kind routinely. Does a person have to be a native for his kindness towards a missionary to be counted as an exception?

Kindness is no guarantee a person is saved as an exception.

Who said it was? One of the challenging things involved in carrying on a conversation with you is you go off on so many tangents. The question was not who is saved but if a person who is not born again can do anything other than sin.

Satan can be kind when it serves his purpose. “He will favor and prosper some in order to further his own designs. . . .” (GC 589) Only God knows the true motive behind kindnesses. Whether they are lost or saved is not up to good works, but up to God. Only He can make exceptions to the rule.

This is not germain to the point.

Quote:
I'm also curious as to why you think this is an exception. The Bible says that Jesus is the true light that lightens every one who comes into the world. That light lightens everyone. Not all that light is constantly rejected.

Consider someone like Muhatma Ghandi. Do you think he did nothing but sin his entire life? Were his teachings of meeting violence with kindness sin? These quotes appear to me to be evidence that the true Light was lightening him. Are these insights sin? Or could they be evidence that the Holy Spirit was working with him too?

Again, only God knows the true motive. What is the fruit of Gandhi’s life and works? Does it build up the kingdom of God? Does it lead people to the foot of the cross? Or, does it make people think they can be good enough without becoming a baptized member of the Remnant Church? "By their fruits ye shall know them." How many unbelievers have joined the SDA Church because of the life and works of Gandhi?

The questions you are asking are off point. My question to you was directed to your claim that a non-born again person can do nothing but sin.

Quote:
Not unless we include exceptions to the rule, like the natives who showed kindness to missionaries. Of course this does not apply to those poor slaves who will not go to heaven.

I noticed you left out the part about the poor slaves Sister White wrote about. Why?

Because it had nothing to do with the subject. I was seeking to show you that your idea that people who aren't born again can do nothing but sin is incorrect (which you've recognized up to a point -- I'm trying to expand your horizons on this). That slaves won't be taken to heaven has nothing to do with the question as to whether people who aren't born again can do nothing but sin. Unless you can produce a quote which says something like "The slaves who won't be resurrected never did anything but sin."


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. [Re: Mountain Man] #84259
01/19/07 05:16 PM
01/19/07 05:16 PM
J
John Boskovic  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
Quote:
MM: I already know what I believe about it.


And I know whom I believe.

And that is what makes all the difference.

Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. [Re: Tom] #84260
01/19/07 05:17 PM
01/19/07 05:17 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
When we speak of a person being "empowered" to overcome sin, we are dealing with the choice on the part of the believe to not sin, correct? Physical power, a person always has. There could be some defect in the brain due to drugs or genetic defect, or something like that, which would require a miracle on the part of God, but this is an exceptional case. In general, the miracle which God performs to empower us to overcome sin is the miracle of right thinking.

As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. If we can think correctly, we can act correctly.

This all goes to the realm of perception. How do we see things? Do we see them like God sees them? If not, how can we come to see them like God does? As long as we see things wrong, we are destined to act wrong, thinking we are one thing when we're another, like the Pharisees, or the people who said "look at all these things we did in your name" but Jesus reponds, "I never knew you."

Being born again is the beginning of the miracle of right thinking. That's what the concept of "new birth" is about. It is a new entrance in the world; or, an entrance into a new world, the world (or kingdom) of God.

Because right-thinking is what's important, we are encouraged to spend a thoughtful hour each day comtemplating the life of Christ, especially the latter scenes. The whole purpose of Christ's mission was the revelation of God. Through Christ, God became visible and familiar to our eyes, which is the only way we could be set right and kept right with Him. What Christ did is what we should do, which is reveal God to others. We do this by beholding Him, because by beholding we become changed.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. [Re: Tom] #84261
01/19/07 06:30 PM
01/19/07 06:30 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
TE: Where does it say that an active agent for Christ cannot commit a known sin?

MM: Where does it say they can? No one abiding in Jesus can commit a known sin, not any more than Jesus could have committed a known while abiding in the Father. Again, this doesn’t men they are incapable of committing a known sin. What it does mean, though, is that they must first neglect to choose to abide in Jesus, and then they will be able to resume sinning.

TE: If you take "cannot sin" to mean "is unable to commit a sin" then you have the contradiction I've pointed out many times now.

MM: I agree. What it does mean, though, is that they must first neglect to choose to abide in Jesus, and then they will be able to resume sinning. No born again believer, who is willingly submitted and surrendered to Jesus, the origin and source of obedience, can commit a known sin. “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Phil 2:13)

TE: So what do we conclude? We conclude that when John says a born again believer cannot sin, he doesn't mean that the believe is unable to commit a sin, but means something else, which has been my point all along.

MM: Again, I agree. What it does mean, though, is that they must first neglect to choose to abide in Jesus, and then they will be able to resume sinning.

TE: The question was not who is saved but if a person who is not born again can do anything other than sin.

MM: Again, unless we include exceptions, the answer is - No. Other than the fact they can admit that their sinful habits are wrong, which is neither sinful nor sinless.

TE: The questions you are asking are off point. My question to you was directed to your claim that a non-born again person can do nothing but sin. . . I was seeking to show you that your idea that people who aren't born again can do nothing but sin is incorrect (which you've recognized up to a point -- I'm trying to expand your horizons on this).

MM: Did Gandhi do anything that did not qualify as a sin? I don’t know. Only God knows. However, there are two scriptures that can help us discern with spiritual discernment:

Romans
14:23 For whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Matthew
7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. [Re: Mountain Man] #84262
01/19/07 06:34 PM
01/19/07 06:34 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
JB: And I know whom I believe. And that is what makes all the difference.

MM: Amen!

1 John
5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. [Re: Mountain Man] #84263
01/19/07 07:03 PM
01/19/07 07:03 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
TE: In general, the miracle which God performs to empower us to overcome sin is the miracle of right thinking.

MM: I disagree. Paul wrote that knowing what is right and being willing to do it is not enough. We do not naturally possess the physical or spiritual power to do it.

Romans
7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not {within myself}.

We need a power above and outside of us to do those things that we know and believe are pleasing to God. We need to abide in Jesus, to partake of the divine nature – this, not merely right thinking, is what empowers us to work out what God works in. “Divine agencies are combining with the human in reshaping the character according to the perfect pattern, and man is to work out that which God works in.” (6T 129)

DA 466
In the work of redemption there is no compulsion. No external force is employed. Under the influence of the Spirit of God, man is left free to choose whom he will serve. In the change that takes place when the soul surrenders to Christ, there is the highest sense of freedom. The expulsion of sin is the act of the soul itself. True, we have no power to free ourselves from Satan’s control; but when we desire to be set free from sin, and in our great need cry out for a power out of and above ourselves, the powers of the soul are imbued with the divine energy of the Holy Spirit, and they obey the dictates of the will in fulfilling the will of God. (DA 466)

TE: Because right-thinking is what's important, we are encouraged to spend a thoughtful hour each day comtemplating the life of Christ, especially the latter scenes. The whole purpose of Christ's mission was the revelation of God. Through Christ, God became visible and familiar to our eyes, which is the only way we could be set right and kept right with Him. What Christ did is what we should do, which is reveal God to others. We do this by beholding Him, because by beholding we become changed.

MM: Amen! But are there exceptions to this truth? Is this truly “the only way we could be set right and kept right with Him.” What about the Gentiles Paul wrote about in Romans 2:13-15?

Re: Christian Perfection of Character - what and how. [Re: Mountain Man] #84264
01/19/07 07:19 PM
01/19/07 07:19 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Thirteen fundamental truths (excerpts from post number 84256):

1. If we abide in Christ, if the love of God dwells in the heart, our feelings, our thoughts, our actions, will be in harmony with the will of God.

2. By courage, by faith, by persevering toil, he can conquer. But let him remember that to gain the victory Christ must abide in him and he in Christ.

3. There are only two classes in the world today, and only two classes will be recognized in the judgment - those who violate God's law and those who obey it.

4. This union with Christ, once formed, must be maintained.

5. The life you have received from Me can be preserved only by continual communion.

6. Abiding in Christ means a constant receiving of His Spirit, a life of unreserved surrender to His service.

7. So long as the soul is united to Christ, there is no danger that it will wither or decay.

8. When we live by faith on the Son of God, the fruits of the Spirit will be seen in our lives; not one will be missing.

9. So there may be an apparent connection with Christ without a real union with Him by faith.

10. It is through the word that Christ abides in His followers.

11. The life of Christ in you produces the same fruits as in Him.

12. A mere profession of godliness is worthless. It is he that abideth in Christ that is a Christian.

13. "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not." God has power to keep the soul who is in Christ, when that soul is under temptation. "Whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." That is, every one who is a true believer is sanctified through the truth, in life and character.

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