Cheri,
I have to run shortly. Do you believe Daniel ate meat or no? Its very quick and simple. I will post the verses again.


No one fasts from something they do not do, I am not on a cigarette fast, cause I don't smoke, it's redundant. Daniel ate bread and he fasted from that as well.
The Holy Scriptures testify that he ate meat and bread. Do you agree or no?
God Bless,
Will

Mornin' Will,

I have been thinking about the verses in Daniel, I never really thought much about them before, far as Daniel drinking wine and eating meat goes. Here are my thoughts...tell me what you think...

I believe it means what it says, when it says regarding Daniel, that he "ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled." The Bible says he didn't eat meat or drink wine those 3 weeks, clearly implying that before and after those 3 weeks, he did eat meat and drink wine.

I think we have to be really careful that we don't try to make the Bible say something it isn't saying.

Yes, vegetarianism was the original diet, given to man, but after the flood, all the followers of God ate meat. They started eating meat when they got out of the ark...with God's blessing....right on down through the ages...and it wasn't until the Lord gave Ellen White the visions on health, that God's people have been called to give up meat eating (not because God was trying to make more rules, but because meat eating had become so unhealthy). David and Daniel, Elijah and Moses, Aaron and all of them ate meat, for God told Noah in Genesis: Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. Genesis 9:3. Obviously we all know, "every moving thing" did not include the unclean animals, but it included all the clean animals. From the time of the flood til the 1800's, God's people have been permitted to eat meat.

But now, we have been given further instruction from God, and we need to walk in the light we have been given, and not continue to eat the meat. We need to lift the standard higher...

As far as Daniel drinking wine goes...well, David had multiple wives, too... Daniel and David were great men, but they are not our standard. One thing I'm confident of when it comes to wine, is that Daniel was temperate in his wine drinking. God has put on record for us, what drinking wine did to good men, like Noah and Lot. Both of them got drunk... Ellen White says that no one could ever find anything wrong with how Daniel conducted his life (his enemies were always watching him like a hawk, trying to find fault with him). If he had been drinking too much wine, you can be sure, he would have been making mistakes.

So, Daniel ate meat and drank wine. Is that any reason or excuse for us as SDA's today to continue eating meat and drinking alcohol? God forbid!

We cannot look back at the great men in the Bible and use them as the standard as to where we should be, as we have much more light than they!

Just on a side note, I believe that one of the reason Daniel and the Three Worthies didn't eat the meat and drink the wine when they were first taken into the Babylonian school, was that it had all been offered to idols, and of course, the Babylonians didn't have the clean & unclean meat laws, either. God blessed them for not compromising by eating unclean food and foods offered to idols.

Far as I can tell, John the Baptist was the only one in the Bible, after sin, who actually lived a vegetarian lifestyle...and he is the one who Ellen White says was a "type" of the last generation people, both in diet and in his simplicity of dress.

Looking forward to reading your thoughts....
Have a good day!

I sure know how you feel....we visited a church this Sabbath...was very disappointed...so much mixing of the common with the holy...came away feeling like I wished that Sabbath could start all over...was very discouraging.

Honestly, this is another topic, but I'm beginning to feel like they did in the Old Testament when there was so much apostacy going on, that they decided not to go to the temple, but to worship at home. I find more fellowship here on the forum than at church...

Thanks for making the forum available to us, Daryl!

Thanks Tammy for sharing your thoughts on this.
I don't believe God changes. He listed very clearly thousands of years ago what is clean and unclean meat, there are many poor people (SDA's and other Christians as well) who cannot afford the luxury of spending a couple of hundred dollars on changing their diet to be vegetarian, cause it's not cheap I counted as we made changes.
My point was being thaty if eating meat is a sin, and we know that Daniel ate meat, and Ellen White ate meat regardless of circumstances or anything, then it must be Ok to sin. That's where that line of thought ends.
I know it's not Ok to sin, after all that's why Jesus came, it was to take away our sins.
I believe that one should be temperate in all things, meaning one has to learn and be educated, and when they are willing to stop eating meat then fine. Until then, let them be convinced in their own mind. Our lives are a testimony to that, that's what people look at.

I am glad that you believe that Daniel ate meat and drank wine. I get exhausted over the same old theme over and over again. It really hinders me from participating anywhere in any forum, it gets old, but when someone presents a thought that I know is not Biblical, then I will present my thoughts.

Yeah, I believe John the Baptist was a vegetarian. Locust beans, I mean its even found in several products today, I think its called Locust Bean gum or something.
We must dress simple, but use your head about that. I found a site that was big on dress reformation, and when I looked at what they had I thought I was looking at a clip from the movie The Scarlett Letter, big huge dresses,bonnets, hear ye hear ye..

I am not comfortable with what's going on in our churches at least where I live, which was the complete opposite from when I was away a few weeks ago.
Last Sabbath I thought I was at a townhall meeting at work, all I could remember the pastor talking about was some life changing experience, so my mind went into autopilot and I thought about different things.. It was weird in the sense, that not enough scripture was given, not enough explanation and uplifting of Jesus. I'm old school when it comes to that, a church my dad helped start (actively helped start mind you, not a benchwarmer) has over 300 people actively attending church each and every Sabbath. This was over 20 years ago where it started very small and has grown, there are 2 services that occur at the same time one in english and one inspanish . There were people attending who's character and demeanor is warm, passionate, funny (humorous), willing to learn, and serving The Lord.
People came up to me and we talked, and I even got a free book!! And I love books, I can't get enough out of books hehehe
The book is called Omega II I highly recommend it to anyone. I am almost finished, and no it has nothing to do with the fringe groups constant badgering that it must be the trinity (blind people)..Its way deeper and very very interesting.
God Bless,
Will

The SDA Bible Commentary is quiet on the flesh and wine aspect of Daniel 10:3. The verse tells me that Daniel did in fact eat flesh food and drink wine prior to and after this period of mourning. The drinking of wine, however, could very well have been unfermented grape juice.

Hi Will

Your description of the dress reform site has sparked my curiosity. Can you share the site?

Also can you give an author for "Omega II"

I am having trouble understanding your statement:



Have I missed something? I have found plant based diet to be less expensive than a meat based diet. e.g. cost of lentil loaf verses cost of meat loaf.

Hi Crater,
I can't find the site, let alone remember the name of it. I recall searching for medical missionary training (trying to think of the keywords here), and I remember a beautiful picture of a mangrove and it was called a mangrove. That was all I could remember. I will continue searching for it though.
The book is called "Omega II God's church on the brink" authored by Lewis R. Walton. Its an amazing book.

I think you missed something regarding the cost of plant based diet.
1. People get bored. Try eating lentil loaf for a month straight and let me know if you want another piece

2. To prevent this boredom of food, you need to buy other things, like lots of other stuff including nuts which 100 grams of cashews cost $1.89, that's 100 grams 1/3 of a cup, almonds are costly as well. Factor in the cost of all the grains combined that you will prepare for dinner, if you have the chance, for more than 2 people, and multiple servings minimum 2 plates. So add, brown rice cause white rice has zero nutritional value, brown rice, or soy pasta, and get the ones that are gluten, wheat, and yeast free. If you are gonna live right go all the way.
Almost forgot oatmeal.. 1 Kilogram (2.2 Lbs) for $11.00 appx. I prefer Bob's redmill Scottish Oatmeal, and thats close to $3.00 a bag for 567 grams. I eat it twice a day with my fruits.

3. Fruits. I pay $6.00 for 1 bag, 600 grams of mixed berries blue,black,strawberry, and raspberry. It lasts me 3 days on average. So i buy 2-3 bags thats $18.00 for that alone, not counting melons, apples, lemons.

4. Vegetables. You have to go out and buy at least twice a week, this includes romaine lettuce, green onions,peppers, cucumber, zucchini etc.

5. Now dump out your white sugar, and start using brown rice syrup, that stuff is not even cheap. Paid 12-$13.00 for 1 humble looking bottle.

6. Distilled water..runs $6.00 for 4.5 liters. We buy 4 at a time, and since we both workout, we drink a lot of water 2 liters minimum a day.

7. Soy milk. If you have allergies, or have a low tolerance for it i.e. thyroid disorder, use almond milk, or oatmilk, which you can buy powedered and the ingredients are..almonds or oats. Look at paying 19-$20 some odd dollars for oat\almond milk.
1.5\1.8 litres of soy milk runs around $4.40. I consume it and go through 4 in 1 week very quickly as I use it to make my oatmeal. Now, I found 1 gallon of unsweetened soy milk, and the ingredients are filtered water and soy beans (I love the simplicity!) for 3.78. I have to buy another gallon tomorrow, and this lasts me 3-4 days tops.

Now if my wife consumed the soy products I get, then double the cost. So its not cheap, not by a long shot.

God Bless,
Will

I know that some people who are allergic to gluten must be carefull not to, but what reason could there possibly be for the rest of us to eat gluten free? After all, God placed the gluten right where we find it. And wheat? Whats up with wheat free? I mean, thats like saying "corn free" in southern US or "rice free" in southeast asia. Also dont know about the yeast?Thats strange. Around here, oatmeal is cheap food right in the same category with noodles and pasta.What about honey?