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Re: The Come Back of the Labor Unions? [Re: gordonb1] #86965
03/26/07 06:29 PM
03/26/07 06:29 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
I have no disagreement with your analysis of Ellens agenda. However, Ellen had her agenda in the context of the world she lived in. What I asked previously is if the circumstances or context of labour unions is the same in US today as it was during her time. For instance, if Ellen warned about labour unions because all labour union bosses wore pink tuxedoes, and for some reason it would be a sin to belong to an organisation whos boss wear a pink tux. Now, if that then has changed and today, no labour union boss would be caught dead wearing a pink tuxedo, then the reason for Ellens warning would be gone. Im sure youll understand my meaning if you try.
Also, in other countries where circumstances are others as Johann told about, does the same advice as is created for an American 19th century situation apply the same? If one lives in a country where membership in a labour union is mandated by law for all who are employed, what has precedence? Ellens warning against labour unions or Jesus mandate to give to Caesar what belongs to him and to God what belongs to Him aswell as Paul when he writes:

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: The Come Back of the Labor Unions? [Re: vastergotland] #86982
03/26/07 10:55 PM
03/26/07 10:55 PM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
What is the difference between the trades unions and labor unions EGW speaks of?

EGW also warns against huge monopolies. Internationally the great American trade monopolies is the greatest fear of many. Do we refuse to make our purchases through these monopolies which she warns against in the same breath as unions?


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: The Come Back of the Labor Unions? [Re: Johann] #87014
03/27/07 08:56 AM
03/27/07 08:56 AM
Tammy Roesch  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 562
North East OHIO
Good Morning, Johann,
From what I've read, I would think that trade unions and labor unions would fall into the same category.

My husband was a US Postal Carrier for 17 years, and was one of the very few who were not in the Union.

Al was a very hard worker, he was known as the "running mailman", as he ran his route every day. He loved his job, but the Union didn't love him. They didn't like it that he would get a route that was scheduled to take 3 hours done in 1-1.5 hours.

The Unions don't encourage people to work hard or fast.


Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69}

Re: Gigantic Monopolies & Trade Unions [Re: gordonb1] #87015
03/27/07 09:03 AM
03/27/07 09:03 AM
Tammy Roesch  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 562
North East OHIO
I didn't see this thread or I wouldn't have started a new one yesterday on the Labor Unions...perhaps Daryl may want to combine the two?

Sometimes it boggles my mind that so many SDA's think that when the Sunday Law comes in, that they won't "bow the knee". I'm afraid, when it comes right down to it, the majority will "bow the knee", as they have already been compromising most of their life, by doing other things we are told not to do, such as joining labor unions.


Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69}

Re: Gigantic Monopolies & Trade Unions [Re: Tammy Roesch] #87086
03/27/07 09:33 PM
03/27/07 09:33 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,126
Nova Scotia, Canada
The two topics are now merged into one topic. \:\)


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: The Come Back of the Labor Unions? [Re: Johann] #87101
03/28/07 07:30 AM
03/28/07 07:30 AM
C
crater  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
 Originally Posted By: Johann
What is the difference between the trades unions and labor unions EGW speaks of?

EGW also warns against huge monopolies. Internationally the great American trade monopolies is the greatest fear of many. Do we refuse to make our purchases through these monopolies which she warns against in the same breath as unions?


This site give some good information on Trade Unions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_union

Re: The Come Back of the Labor Unions? [Re: crater] #87178
03/29/07 07:29 AM
03/29/07 07:29 AM
C
crater  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
"world gigantic monopolies", "confederacies of the world", "Trade Unions".

Would the UN fall under confederacies of the world? Are any of the UN's actions is at all similar to that of Trade Unions?
 Quote:
The United Nations (U.N.) is an international organization whose stated aims are to facilitate co-operation in international law, international security, economic development, social progress and human rights issues. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations
 Quote:
The UN Security Council imposed comprehensive economic sanctions against Iraq on August 6, 1990, just after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. When the coalition war had ousted Iraq from Kuwait the following year, the Council did not lift the sanctions, keeping them in place as leverage to press for Iraqi disarmament and other goals. The sanctions remained in place thereafter, despite a harsh impact on innocent Iraqi civilians and an evident lack of pressure on Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein. http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/sanction/indexone.htm
 Quote:
Sanctions is the plural of sanction. (Depending on context, a sanction can be either a punishment or a permission. The word is a contronym.)


Sanctions involving countries:

* International sanctions, punitive measures adopted by a country or group of countries against another nation for political reasons

o Diplomatic sanctions, the reduction or removal of diplomatic ties, such as embassies

o Economic sanctions, typically a ban on trade, possibly limited to certain sectors such as armaments, or with certain exceptions (such as food and medicine)

o Military sanctions, military intervention

* Trade sanctions, economic sanctions applied for non-political reasons, typically as part of a trade dispute, or for purely economic reasons, and typically involving tariffs or similar measures, rather than bans. Other meanings:

* In a legal context, sanctions are penalties imposed by the courts.
* In a sociology context, sanction may refer to social control.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions
 Quote:
On May 10, 1996, appearing on 60 Minutes, Madeleine Albright (then U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations) was presented with a figure of half a million children under five having died from the sanctions. Not challenging this figure, she infamously replied "we think the price is worth it", though she later rued the comment as "stupid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_sanctions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid#Sanctions
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/19/un.nuclear.safrica.reut/index.html?eref=rss_world
 Quote:
A boycott is the act of abstaining from using, buying, or dealing with someone or some other organization as an expression of protest or as a means of coercion. . . .

A boycott is normally considered a one-time affair designed to correct an outstanding single wrong. When extended for a long period of time, or as part of an overall program of awareness-raising or reforms to laws or regimes, a boycott is part of moral purchasing, and those economic or political terms are to be preferred.

Most organized consumer boycotts today are focused on long-term change of buying habits, and so fit into part of a larger political program, with many techniques that require a longer structural commitment, e.g. reform to commodity markets, or government commitment to moral purchasing, e.g. the longstanding boycott of South African businesses to protest apartheid already alluded to. These stretch the meaning of a "boycott." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott

 Quote:
In addition, unions' relations with political parties vary. In many countries unions are tightly bonded, or even share leadership, with a political party intended to represent the interests of working people.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_union

http://www.stopthewall.org/boycott/bds/cupe.shtml
 Quote:
The AFL-CIO National Boycott List: An important function of our Department is to help unions conduct national boycotts that have been endorsed by the AFL-CIO Executive Council. The Department maintains and publishes the "Don't Buy" list of companies being boycotted and the products and services involved. In addition, you can see information on boycott updates. http://www.unionlabel.org/
 Quote:
"We are very distressed by this initiative, which urges members to boycott Israeli products and Israeli state and embassy functions, and calls on the Norwegian government to impose sanctions against Israel," http://www.adl.org/presrele/IslME_62/4095_62.asp

Re: The Come Back of the Labor Unions? [Re: crater] #87182
03/29/07 09:33 AM
03/29/07 09:33 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
If the trade sanctions and boycots organised by the UN against Irak in the 1990ies makes it evil, what does USAs sanctions and boycots against Iran and Cuba make?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: The Come Back of the Labor Unions? [Re: vastergotland] #87209
03/29/07 03:26 PM
03/29/07 03:26 PM
C
crater  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
 Originally Posted By: västergötland
If the trade sanctions and boycots organised by the UN against Irak in the 1990ies makes it evil, what does USAs sanctions and boycots against Iran and Cuba make?


You tell me "if the trade sanctions and boycots organised by the UN against Irak in the 1990ies makes it evil", västergötland? Perhaps you have an opinion on "USAs sanctions and boycots against Iran and Cuba" as well?

Did I say anything was evil, did I even say that Trade Unions were evil? I do not recall that I gave an opinion.

I did give some information on how both the UN and Trade Unions flex their muscle. I do not believe that I voiced a "judgement". I just asked:

 Quote:
Would the UN fall under confederacies of the world? Are any of the UN's actions at all similar to that of Trade Unions?

Re: The Come Back of the Labor Unions? [Re: crater] #87211
03/29/07 03:35 PM
03/29/07 03:35 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Crater, I foolishly assumed that your quotes where in context with the thread in general. I must try to remember to avoid such simpleminded assumptions in the future.

 Originally Posted By: crater
 Originally Posted By: västergötland
If the trade sanctions and boycots organised by the UN against Irak in the 1990ies makes it evil, what does USAs sanctions and boycots against Iran and Cuba make?


You tell me "if the trade sanctions and boycots organised by the UN against Irak in the 1990ies makes it evil", västergötland? Perhaps you have an opinion on "USAs sanctions and boycots against Iran and Cuba" as well?

Did I say anything was evil, did I even say that Trade Unions were evil? I do not recall that I gave an opinion.

I did give some information on how both the UN and Trade Unions flex their muscle. I do not believe that I voiced a "judgement". I just asked:

 Quote:
Would the UN fall under confederacies of the world? Are any of the UN's actions at all similar to that of Trade Unions?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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