Here's another verse:

More than important, Paul seems to have thought crucifixion was a condition for resurrection.

The risk was real, not hypothetical. At least, as far as Ellen White is concerned.

She wrote:



This is clearly not "hypothetical." She speaks of "a bitterer conflict," "a more fearful risk." What the conflict "hypothetical"? No. And neither was the risk.

She also writes:



If the risk God took in sending Christ were "hypothetical," then heaven could not have been "imperiled."

MM, in general what you wrote about the risk being hypothetical, and there never being an instant when God did not know what would happen, doesn't make sense. If God always knew exactly what would happen, the risk would not be "hypothetical," but rather "non-existent."

In other words, what EGW should have written is: God did NOT send His Son at the risk of failure and eternal life. Remember, Christ did NOT risk all. Heaven was NOT imperiled for our redemption. This would agree with your assertions.

Since Jesus did not fail, it is pointless to ask "What if ...." But if we have to speculate, here's what makes sense to me - If God was uncertain as to whether or not Jesus would succeed on the cross He would not have consented to creating FMAs in the first place. The Godhead would have continued living by themselves.

This logic could be applied to any hypothetical question, couldn't it. That is, one could say regarding any hypothetical (e.g., if Chamberlain would have stood up to Hitler, what would have happened, "Since Chamberlain did not stand up to Hitler, it is pointless to ask 'What if'"), right? So you're basically saying that all hypothetical questions are pointless(?)

If God were like you are I, you would be correct. But God's thoughts are higher than ours, and His ways higher than ours.





From these quotes, one can see how the glories of divine love impact the heart. Yes, you are right, *we* would have not gone through with creation, *we* would not have taken the risk. But God *did*. He took a "more fearful risk." What was EGW's reaction to recognizing this:



What is the reaction of the redeemed in recognizing this?

Thomas, what do you think Jesus meant?

2T 209-211
Oh, was there ever suffering and sorrow like that endured by the dying Saviour! It was the sense of His Father's displeasure which made His cup so bitter. It was not bodily suffering which so quickly ended the life of Christ upon the cross. It was the crushing weight of the sins of the world, and a sense of His Father's wrath. The Father's glory and sustaining presence had left Him, and despair pressed its crushing weight of darkness upon Him and forced from His pale and quivering lips the anguished cry: "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" {2T 209.1}

Jesus had united with the Father in making the world. Amid the agonizing sufferings of the Son of God, blind and deluded men alone remain unfeeling. The chief priests and elders revile God's dear Son while in His expiring agonies. Yet inanimate nature groans in sympathy with her bleeding, dying Author. The earth trembles. The sun refuses to behold the scene. The heavens gather blackness. Angels have witnessed the scene of suffering until they can look no longer, and hide their faces from the horrid sight. Christ is dying! He is in despair! His Father's approving smile is removed, and angels are not permitted to lighten the gloom of the terrible hour. They can only behold in amazement their loved Commander, the Majesty of heaven, suffering the penalty of man's transgression of the Father's law. {2T 209.2}

Even doubts assailed the dying Son of God. He could not see through the portals of the tomb. Bright hope did not present to Him His coming forth from the tomb a conqueror and His Father's acceptance of His sacrifice. The sin of the world, with all its terribleness, was felt to the utmost by the Son of God. The displeasure of the Father for sin, and its penalty, which is death, were all that He could realize through this amazing darkness. He was tempted to fear that sin was so offensive in the sight of His Father that He could not be reconciled to His Son. The fierce temptation that His own Father had forever left Him caused that piercing cry from the cross: "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" {2T 209.3}

Christ felt much as sinners will feel when the vials of God's wrath shall be poured out upon them. Black despair, like the pall of death, will gather about their guilty souls, and then they will realize to the fullest extent the sinfulness of sin. Salvation has been purchased for them by the suffering and death of the Son of God. It might be theirs, if they would accept of it willingly, gladly; but none are compelled to yield obedience to the law of God. If they refuse the heavenly benefit and choose the pleasures and deceitfulness of sin, they have their choice, and at the end receive their wages, which is the wrath of God and eternal death. They will be forever separated from the presence of Jesus, whose sacrifice they had despised. They will have lost a life of happiness and sacrificed eternal glory for the pleasures of sin for a season. {2T 210.1}

Faith and hope trembled in the expiring agonies of Christ because God had removed the assurance He had heretofore given His beloved Son of His approbation and acceptance. The Redeemer of the world then relied upon the evidences which had hitherto strengthened Him, that His Father accepted His labors and was pleased with His work. In His dying agony, as He yields up His precious life, He has by faith alone to trust in Him whom it has ever been His joy to obey. He is not cheered with clear, bright rays of hope on the right hand nor on the left. All is enshrouded in oppressive gloom. Amid the awful darkness which is felt by sympathizing nature, the Redeemer drains the mysterious cup even to its dregs. Denied even bright hope and confidence in the triumph which will be His in the future, He cries with a loud voice: "Father, into Thy hands I commend My spirit." He is acquainted with the character of His Father, with His justice, His mercy, and His great love, and in submission He drops into His hands. Amid the convulsions of nature are heard by the amazed spectators the dying words of the Man of Calvary. {2T 210.2}

Tom, there are other ways to look at what Sister White meant when she wrote about "risk".

The response of the saved is in relation to the success of Jesus on the cross - not to the hypothetical "risk".

How does this all play out in the prophetic utterance of Genesis 3:15 that was uttered by God Himself?


Was this also an uncertain prophecy in relation to the risk factor?