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Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
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Re: A Christian Guide to Dress--Part One
[Re: crater]
#89611
06/07/07 10:31 AM
06/07/07 10:31 AM
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Someone said to me that the further away from God what we are, the less we cover ourselves. Do you think there is anything to it? I never heard that saying, Crater, but I think there is alot of truth to it! I wouldn't say though, that the converse is true...there are many who are very modest in their clothes, but it doesn't mean their heart is right with God.
Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69}
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Re: A Christian Guide to Dress--Part One
[Re: Tammy Roesch]
#89632
06/07/07 07:05 PM
06/07/07 07:05 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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TR: ... (the world's version of "dress reform" was women wearing pants) ... MM: The pants were worn under "a dress resembling a coat and reaching about halfway from the hip to the knee." Sister White opposed it, not because it was immodest, but because it resembled "very nearly the dress worn by men." 1T 424 We do not think it in accordance with our faith to dress in the American costume, to wear hoops, or to go to an extreme in wearing long dresses which sweep the sidewalks and streets. If women would wear their dresses so as to clear the filth of the streets an inch or two, their dresses would be modest, and they could be kept clean much more easily, and would wear longer. Such a dress would be in accordance with our faith. {1T 424.1} In wide contrast with this modest dress is the so-called American costume, resembling very nearly the dress worn by men. It consists of a vest, pants, and a dress resembling a coat and reaching about halfway from the hip to the knee. This dress I have opposed, from what has been shown me as in harmony with the word of God; while the other I have recommended as modest, comfortable, convenient, and healthful. {1T 465.1} TR: Please find me a statement in the SOP that says we should wear long sleeves for modesty? MM: I didn't find anything that addressed the length of sleeves. But my data base is not exhaustive. In the following quote she expounds upon the need to have the limbs uniformly clothed. Covering the arms and legs protects against cold in the winter and against dangerous UV rays in the summer. Dress reform requires women to wear long skirts over pants both winter and summer. Nothing suggests that the pants should not be worn in summer. I myself wear long sleeves and pants in summer and I do not find it to be too hot. I realize, however, that long sleeves in the mid-west is unpleasant. The limbs were not formed by our Creator to endure exposure, as was the face. The Lord provided the face with an immense circulation, because it must be exposed. He provided, also, large veins and nerves for the limbs and feet, to contain a large amount of the current of human life, that the limbs might be uniformly as warm as the body. They should be so thoroughly clothed as to induce the blood to the extremities.
Satan invented the fashions which leave the limbs exposed, chilling back the life current from its original course. And parents bow at the shrine of fashion and so clothe their children that the nerves and veins become contracted and do not answer the purpose that God designed they should. The result is, habitually cold feet and hands. Those parents who follow fashion instead of reason will have an account to render to God for thus robbing their children of health. Even life itself is frequently sacrificed to the god of fashion. {2T 531.3}
Children who are clothed according to fashion cannot endure exposure in the open air unless the weather is mild. Therefore parents and children remain in ill-ventilated rooms, fearing the atmosphere out of doors; and well they may, with their fashionable style of clothing. If they would clothe themselves sensibly, and have moral courage to take their position on the side of right, they would not endanger health by going out summer and winter, and exercising freely in the open air. {2T 532.1}
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Re: A Christian Guide to Dress--Part One
[Re: Tammy Roesch]
#89633
06/07/07 07:07 PM
06/07/07 07:07 PM
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Someone said to me that the further away from God what we are, the less we cover ourselves. Do you think there is anything to it? I never heard that saying, Crater, but I think there is alot of truth to it! I wouldn't say though, that the converse is true...there are many who are very modest in their clothes, but it doesn't mean their heart is right with God. I agree that the reverse is true. I told in an earlier post of the SDA woman who followed dress reform, but had a problem with lying and abusive behavior. We cannot always tell from the way someone dresses, where their heart is. 
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Re: A Christian Guide to Dress--Part One
[Re: crater]
#89634
06/07/07 08:03 PM
06/07/07 08:03 PM
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According to S A Nagel, at least four great principles enter into the subject of dress.
In the first place is plainness and simplicity.
The second principle of correct dress is modesty
The third principle is appropriateness.
The fourth principle is health.
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Re: A Christian Guide to Dress--Part One
[Re: Mountain Man]
#89649
06/08/07 08:31 AM
06/08/07 08:31 AM
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TR: ... (the world's version of "dress reform" was women wearing pants) ...
MM: The pants were worn under "a dress resembling a coat and reaching about halfway from the hip to the knee." Sister White opposed it, not because it was immodest, but because it resembled
"very nearly the dress worn by men."
1T 424
We do not think it in accordance with our faith to dress in the American costume, to wear hoops, or to go to an extreme in wearing long dresses which sweep the sidewalks and streets. If women would wear their dresses so as to clear the filth of the streets an inch or two, their dresses would be modest, and they could be kept clean much more easily, and would wear longer. Such a dress would be in accordance with our faith. {1T 424.1}
In wide contrast with this modest dress is the so-called American costume, resembling very nearly the dress worn by men. It consists of a vest, pants, and a dress resembling a coat and reaching about halfway from the hip to the knee. This dress I have opposed, from what has been shown me as in harmony with the word of God; while the other I have recommended as modest, comfortable, convenient, and healthful. {1T 465.1}
True, the pants in her day were worn under a long coat, so they were not "immodest" in that they weren't revealing...but they were manly, confusing the sexes. And they are still that today, on top of many of them being immodest. (tight & revealing).
Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69}
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Re: A Christian Guide to Dress--Part One
[Re: Mountain Man]
#89650
06/08/07 08:35 AM
06/08/07 08:35 AM
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TR: Please find me a statement in the SOP that says we should wear long sleeves for modesty? MM: I didn't find anything that addressed the length of sleeves. But my data base is not exhaustive. In the following quote she expounds upon the need to have the limbs uniformly clothed. Covering the arms and legs protects against cold in the winter and against dangerous UV rays in the summer. Dress reform requires women to wear long skirts over pants both winter and summer. Nothing suggests that the pants should not be worn in summer. I myself wear long sleeves and pants in summer and I do not find it to be too hot. I realize, however, that long sleeves in the mid-west is unpleasant. The limbs were not formed by our Creator to endure exposure, as was the face. The Lord provided the face with an immense circulation, because it must be exposed. He provided, also, large veins and nerves for the limbs and feet, to contain a large amount of the current of human life, that the limbs might be uniformly as warm as the body. They should be so thoroughly clothed as to induce the blood to the extremities.
Satan invented the fashions which leave the limbs exposed, chilling back the life current from its original course. And parents bow at the shrine of fashion and so clothe their children that the nerves and veins become contracted and do not answer the purpose that God designed they should. The result is, habitually cold feet and hands. Those parents who follow fashion instead of reason will have an account to render to God for thus robbing their children of health. Even life itself is frequently sacrificed to the god of fashion. {2T 531.3}
Children who are clothed according to fashion cannot endure exposure in the open air unless the weather is mild. Therefore parents and children remain in ill-ventilated rooms, fearing the atmosphere out of doors; and well they may, with their fashionable style of clothing. If they would clothe themselves sensibly, and have moral courage to take their position on the side of right, they would not endanger health by going out summer and winter, and exercising freely in the open air. {2T 532.1} I think you are adding the part about "the dangerous UV rays in the summer". I only see where she says that the long sleeves protects from "chilling", which would imply winter and cold weather.
Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69}
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Re: A Christian Guide to Dress--Part One
[Re: crater]
#89651
06/08/07 08:40 AM
06/08/07 08:40 AM
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According to S A Nagel, at least four great principles enter into the subject of dress.
In the first place is plainness and simplicity.
The second principle of correct dress is modesty
The third principle is appropriateness.
The fourth principle is health. I really enjoy reading S. A. Nagel's thoughts. Someone sent me some sermons by him, they had typed out. They were so good, I posted them on our website - Sermons by S. A. Nagel The one about dress is powerful! (#5)
Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69}
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Re: A Christian Guide to Dress--Part One
[Re: Tammy Roesch]
#89653
06/08/07 10:41 AM
06/08/07 10:41 AM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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I think you are adding the part about "the dangerous UV rays in the summer". I only see where she says that the long sleeves protects from "chilling", which would imply winter and cold weather. So it is the letter of her instruction that is important, no matter what the principal behind it might be? Interesting.
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: A Christian Guide to Dress--Part One
[Re: vastergotland]
#89655
06/08/07 11:46 AM
06/08/07 11:46 AM
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I think you are adding the part about "the dangerous UV rays in the summer". I only see where she says that the long sleeves protects from "chilling", which would imply winter and cold weather. So it is the letter of her instruction that is important, no matter what the principal behind it might be? Interesting. Of course not...but in ALL the quotes I could find, not ONE of them mention dressing the limbs because of HEAT...rather it is the opposite...it is because of the COLD... We should adhere to the principle, not twist the principle...
Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69}
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Re: A Christian Guide to Dress--Part One
[Re: Tammy Roesch]
#89663
06/08/07 02:28 PM
06/08/07 02:28 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Neither the world, nor catholicism, nor protestantism, nor the SDA church believes women wearing modest pants (not tight nor revealing) is sinful or immodest. Yes, there are people who believe it is sinful and immodest, and among them the details vary greatly. Some believe women should be loosely clothed at all times while in public from wrist to ankle to neck. There are those who believe short sleeves are acceptable in hot weather but long dresses over pants is required to maintain modesty. Still others believe it is not necessary to wear pants under long dresses. Then there are those who believe long shorts and short sleeves are modest. And finally some people believe bikinis are acceptable.
Who is right?
Tammy believes people are liberal and sinful if they do not agree with her application of dress reform. She is convinced it is perfectly acceptable for women to wear short sleeves and long dresses over pants in hot weather. Protection against UV rays is not an issue. Any deviation from her strict application is considered sinful. Is she right?
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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