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Re: Does Blood Defile, Does Blood Cleanse, or Does Blood Do Both? [Re: Tom] #91543
08/24/07 04:06 PM
08/24/07 04:06 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Posts: 25,122
Nova Scotia, Canada
The person I quoted went on to say the following:
 Quote:

So, in truth the blood both defiles and cleanses. As a transfer agent it symbolically takes the sin away from the sinner and transferrs it to the altar in the sanctuary. Then it cleanses the sanctuary once a year on the day of atonement.

Think about it in this way, doesn't water get dirty when we wash in it? So as it cleanses it becomes defiled as it were. The dirt is transferred to the water and leaves the part washed clean representing the sinner. The dirt accumulates if it is left in one place day after day and allowed to dry. When the day of atonement comes it's like spring cleaning. The dirt left over by the many washings gets cleaned away by more water cleaning it all away. Is this too simplistic? What's the other issues? I'm back into the research of the IJ again, so don't do anything rash brother not yet anyway.

Did what he said here in the above quote make any sense?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Does Blood Defile, Does Blood Cleanse, or Does Blood Do Both? [Re: Tom] #91546
08/24/07 04:17 PM
08/24/07 04:17 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
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I agree with Tom. The blood is symbolic. It is neither clean nor dirty. It symbolizes the fact Jesus made atonement for us. There is nothing dirty about His sacrifice and atonement. At the end of time, the sins of the saved will be placed on Satan who will perish with them in the lake of fire. Sin is not a physical substance.

Re: Does Blood Defile, Does Blood Cleanse, or Does Blood Do Both? [Re: Mountain Man] #91549
08/24/07 04:40 PM
08/24/07 04:40 PM
Tom  Offline
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Lawrence, Kansas
I think there is definitely symbolism involving the idea that our transgressions make the sanctuary dirty. There is also symbolism that we are cleansed by the blood of Jesus. However, I'm not getting where the blood symbolizes our transgressions.

How do our sins get into the sanctuary? They get there by confession. That is, when we confess our sins, and ask for forgiveness, that's where the atonement comes in. They are transferred in type by the priest, as Jesus, in antitype, bears our sin. I'm not seeing where the blood fits into this transfer.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does Blood Defile, Does Blood Cleanse, or Does Blood Do Both? [Re: Tom] #91550
08/24/07 04:56 PM
08/24/07 04:56 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Why then is the blood of the sacrificed animal sprinkled in the sanctuary?

What does the sprinkling of this blood represent? What does it mean?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Does Blood Defile, Does Blood Cleanse, or Does Blood Do Both? [Re: Daryl] #91551
08/24/07 05:39 PM
08/24/07 05:39 PM
Tom  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
It is those who by faith follow Jesus in the great work of the atonement who receive the benefits of His mediation in their behalf (GC 430)


Doesn't the sprinkled blood represent "the benefits of His mediation in their behalf"?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does Blood Defile, Does Blood Cleanse, or Does Blood Do Both? [Re: Daryl] #91552
08/24/07 06:08 PM
08/24/07 06:08 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Posts: 6,154
Brazil
"As anciently the sins of the people were by faith placed upon the sin offering and through its blood transferred, in figure, to the earthly sanctuary, so in the new covenant the sins of the repentant are by faith placed upon Christ and transferred, in fact, to the heavenly sanctuary." {GC 421.3}

That's why I said that, in my opinion, it's not the blood which defiles, but sin. The blood (of Christ's sacrifice) is the means (the provision) through which our sins can be removed from us and transferred to the sanctuary. Instead of continuing to condemn and defile us, they are transferred to the sanctuary; thus we may be considered innocent (pronounced just) and the registry of our sins remains there, to be blotted out in the judgment.


Re: Does Blood Defile, Does Blood Cleanse, or Does Blood Do Both? [Re: Rosangela] #91558
08/25/07 12:04 AM
08/25/07 12:04 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
It is the death of the Lamb that atones for our sins. The blood is the medium by which our sins are transferred to the most holy place. In this sense the blood of Jesus is literal. The sins of the saved and unsaved remain quarantined, as it were, in the body and blood of Jesus in the most holy place until they are placed upon Satan or the unsaved in the lake of fire.

Re: Does Blood Defile, Does Blood Cleanse, or Does Blood Do Both? [Re: Rosangela] #91559
08/25/07 01:01 AM
08/25/07 01:01 AM
asygo  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
First, I'd like to welcome some of our "lost sheep" back into the fold. ;\) Good to see you guys.

 Originally Posted By: Rosangela
"As anciently the sins of the people were by faith placed upon the sin offering and through its blood transferred, in figure, to the earthly sanctuary, so in the new covenant the sins of the repentant are by faith placed upon Christ and transferred, in fact, to the heavenly sanctuary." {GC 421.3}


Before getting into it, I want to make clear that I am talking about blood in a symbolic sense. I don't think the literal blood has any significance.

I see the blood as simply the medium through which sin is transferred. As the sinner confesses his sin, it transfers to the blood, then to the priest, then to the sanctuary. So, the blood cleanses the sinner of his sin, while the same blood defiles the sanctuary with the sin that it carries.

On the Day of Atonement, the blood removes the sin from the sanctuary and transfers it to Azazel. Again, it cleanses and defiles.

Essentially, it is the sin that defiles. The presence of sin shows defilement, while its absence shows purity. But the blood is the vessel that moves it around.

Let's make this a bit more personal. Does the blood of Christ cleanse us? Inherently, it does not. It can only cleanse when we allow Him to take our iniquities away. But it is His spilled blood that gives Him the right to do that.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Does Blood Defile, Does Blood Cleanse, or Does Blood Do Both? [Re: Mountain Man] #91560
08/25/07 01:15 AM
08/25/07 01:15 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
The sins of the saved and unsaved remain quarantined, as it were, in the body and blood of Jesus in the most holy place until they are placed upon Satan or the unsaved in the lake of fire.


That's interesting. Are you saying that the sins of the unsaved have also been transferred to the MHP?


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Does Blood Defile, Does Blood Cleanse, or Does Blood Do Both? [Re: asygo] #91561
08/25/07 03:48 AM
08/25/07 03:48 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
 Quote:
But it is His spilled blood that gives Him the right to do that.

Amen!

 Quote:
Are you saying that the sins of the unsaved have also been transferred to the MHP?

Yes. Jesus earned the right to own the sins of the world - not just the sins of the saved. He brought the sins of the world with Him in His body and blood into the most holy place. That's why He will be able to place them back upon the unsaved in the lake of fire, and why He will be able to place the sins of the saved upon Satan.

But, again, blood neither cleanses nor defiles. Blood is simply the medium by which sins are transferred to the most holy place. Neither does the presence of sins in the most holy place defile the most holy place. It is the death of Jesus, not the blood of Jesus, that gives God the legal right to own our sin and second death. It also gives Him the legal right to pardon our sins and to save us eternally in the New Earth.

 Quote:
Justice demands that sin be not merely pardoned, but the death penalty must be executed. God, in the gift of His only-begotten Son, met both these requirements. By dying in man's stead, Christ exhausted the penalty and provided a pardon. {1SM 340.1}

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