Thanks, MM. The one from Luke is interesting. The one from 202 is dealing with a slight different subject, I think, as "power" isn't really related to forgiveness, I don't think.

The last one is quite good. I hadn't seen that one.

Thanx. The fact He forgave sins indicates He was God. At times, His divinity flashed through His humanity. "Virtue" flowed through Him to heal others. These things mean He had powers not available to us. Did He possess the power to change stone to bread? Yes, of course. Did He ever use His own unique divine powers to resist temptation or to develop a perfect character? No, of course not. He abode in the Father like a born again believer.

Are there people who believe Jesus did not possess the power to change stone to bread? that He had to rely on the Father like we do to perform miracles?

Yes, there are people who believe that (which is what motivated my question). The idea is that He gave up this power when He became a human being.

In becoming incarnate, the Son of God never gave up any of His powers of deity. He was still fully divine. He still retained His divinity. He still possessed all the powers of deity. What He relinquished to become the Saviour of this world was His prerogative (right), as the pre-existent Son of God, to the independent use of these powers.

In other words, to become the last Adam and to save mankind from sin, Christ needed to keep the level of his humanity. This is what put Him under pressure. This was His temptation. He had to walk this earth as we walk it. By that I do not mean just have a body of flesh, bones and blood etc but that He needed to fully function like a human being and not as God. It would have achieved nothing if He had walked this earth exercising these powers in His own right as God.

Christ had no powers available to Him that is not available to you and me. He overcame in human flesh in exactly the same way as we do.

The powers of divinity that He used were no different than those of the Father. What was different was the way that He accessed them. When on earth, just like we do, He did so via the Holy Spirit. The divine Son of God took our place in all things. This is what made Him vulnerable (susceptible) to sin. In the form of God He could not be tempted to sin.

I hope some of this helps.

Regards

Terry

Welcome, Terry. It's good to have you on board. I look forward to studying with you. I appreciated what you posted above about the divinity and humanity of Christ Jesus, a title that encompasses both:

Christ = Divinity
Jesus = Humanity

Do you have any references to back up what you posted? Bible or SOP?

Hi Mountain man

It’s nice to make your acquaintance. Thank you for the welcome. Sorry it took me so long to reply.

The whole premise of my previous post is based on Hebrews 2:17 and 4:15. These Scriptures say

“For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.” Hebrews 2:16-17

“For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.” Hebrews 4:15

It is the “like unto his brethren” and the “like as we are” bit that is very important. I would suggest too that Ellen White’s comments regarding Christ’s stilling the storm on the Sea of Galilee say everything.

If you remember too that Jesus said

" ... Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." John 5:19

Also

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." John 5:30

I am almost at the end of putting together a history of the trinity doctrine, particularly as it pertains to Seventh-day Adventism. Three of the sections (chapters)I have written concern kenosis (Philippians 2:5-8). I hope that you do not mind but to save time I have cut and pasted portions of them to this post. It will save me a lot of time typing. In the main, these are some EGW quotes from those sections with my remarks in between.

<CUT

"Christ had not exchanged his divinity for humanity; but he had clothed his divinity in humanity, and he gave Satan the evidence for which he had asked, -- showed him that he was the Son of God. Divinity flashed through humanity, and the evil one could not resist the authority of the divine voice, as Jesus said, "Get thee behind me, Satan; for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." (Ellen G. White, Review and Herald, 29th October 1895, ‘Satan’s malignity against Christ and His people’)

After saying that in the incarnation that Christ had clothed His divinity with humanity Ellen White said in 1905

“He veiled his divinity with the garb of humanity, but he did not part with his divinity. A divine-human Saviour, he came to stand at the head of the fallen race, to share in their experience from childhood to manhood. That human beings might be partakers of the divine nature, he came to this earth, and lived a life of perfect obedience.” (Ellen G. White, Review and Herald, 15th June 1905, ‘Lessons from the second chapter of Philippians’)

< CUT

<CUT

Ellen White said in 1887, the year prior to the Minneapolis Conference (this was with reference to Philippians 2:5-8)

“The apostle would call our attention from ourselves to the Author of our salvation. He presents before us his two natures, divine and human. Here is the description of the divine: "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God." He was "the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person." (Ellen G. White, Review and Herald, 5th July 1887, ‘Christ man’s example, see also Review and Herald 4th September 1900)

She then said

“Now, of the human: "He was made in the likeness of man: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death." He voluntarily assumed human nature. It was his own act, and by his own consent. He clothed his divinity with humanity.” (Ibid)

She explained

“He was all the while as God, but he did not appear as God. He veiled the demonstrations of Deity which had commanded the homage, and called forth the admiration, of the universe of God. He was God while upon earth, but he divested himself of the form of God, and in its stead took the form and fashion of a man. He walked the earth as a man. For our sakes he became poor, that we through his poverty might be made rich. He laid aside his glory and his majesty. He was God, but the glories of the form of God he for a while relinquished.” (Ibid)

<CUT

< CUT

“When Christ bowed his head and died, he bore the pillars of Satan's kingdom with him to the earth. He vanquished Satan in the same nature over which in Eden Satan obtained the victory.” (Ellen G. White, Youth’s Instructor, 25th April 1901, ‘After the crucifixion’)

She then said by way of explanation

“The enemy was overcome by Christ in his human nature. The power of the Saviour's Godhead was hidden. He overcame in human nature, relying upon God for power. This is the privilege of all. In proportion to our faith will be our victory.” (Ibid)

Ellen White said in respect of the incarnate Son of God

“As one of us He was to give an example of obedience. For this He took upon Himself our nature, and passed through our experiences. "In all things it behooved Him to be made like unto His brethren." Heb. 2:17. If we had to bear anything which Jesus did not endure, then upon this point Satan would represent the power of God as insufficient for us. Therefore Jesus was "in all points tempted like as we are." Heb. 4:15.” (Ellen G. White, The Desire of Ages, page 24, ‘God with us’)

She then added

“He endured every trial to which we are subject. And He exercised in His own behalf no power that is not freely offered to us. As man, He met temptation, and overcame in the strength given Him from God.” (Ibid)

As Ellen White pointed out with regards to the storm on the Sea of Galilee (see Matthew 8:23-27, Mark 4:37-41 and Luke 8:22-25)

“When Jesus was awakened to meet the storm, He was in perfect peace. There was no trace of fear in word or look, for no fear was in His heart.” (Ellen G. White, The Desire of Ages’, page 336, ‘Peace, be still’)

Some may say here that Jesus was at peace because He was omnipotent, meaning He knew that as the creator of this world, He possessed the power to control the storm (also perhaps that because He was omniscient that He knew He would control it). Whilst as creator He could have easily calmed the storm, note very carefully the next words of Ellen White.

She wrote

“But He rested not in the possession of almighty power. It was not as the "Master of earth and sea and sky" that He reposed in quiet.” (Ibid)

Ellen White then explains

“That power He had laid down, and He says, "I can of Mine own self do nothing." John 5:30.”

Here we can see kenosis, meaning what Christ gave up by becoming human. He relinquished His prerogatives, as the Son of God, to the independent use of the powers of divinity. In other words, Christ did not calm the storm as the Son of God (or as God and creator) but as a human being would calm it.

Note very importantly that Ellen White did not say that Christ did not possess these powers. She said that he “rested not” in the possession of them, meaning that He did possess them but did not rely upon or put His trust in this possession.

As Ellen White further explained

“He trusted in the Father's might.” (Ibid)

By way of more explanation she added

“It was in faith -- faith in God's love and care -- that Jesus rested, and the power of that word which stilled the storm was the power of God.” (Ibid)

In the same book Ellen White wrote

"The Saviour was deeply anxious for His disciples to understand for what purpose His divinity was united to humanity.” (Ellen G. White, The Desire of Ages’, page 664, ‘Let not your heart be troubled’)

She explains

“He came to the world to display the glory of God, that man might be uplifted by its restoring power. God was manifested in Him that He might be manifested in them.” (Ibid)

She then added

“Jesus revealed no qualities, and exercised no powers, that men may not have through faith in Him. His perfect humanity is that which all His followers may possess, if they will be in subjection to God as He was.” (Ibid)

In 1874 she wrote

“The Saviour of the world became sin for the race. In becoming man's substitute, Christ did not manifest his power as the Son of God. (Ellen G. White, Review and Herald 18th August 1874)

From beginning to end, Ellen White did not change her belief that in becoming incarnate, Christ had set aside His prerogative of the independent use of the powers of deity. Perhaps we could even say that Christ considered His divine nature dead like we are to consider our fallen human nature dead, thus He walked this earth as you and I are compelled to walk it – by faith.

In 1895 she wrote

“He came as a helpless babe, bearing the humanity we bear.” (Ellen G. White, Manuscript 21, 1895, see Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary Vol. 7 page 925, 1966 edition)

She then said

"As the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same." He could not come in the form of an angel; for unless He met man as man, and testified by His connection with God that divine power was not given to Him in a different way to what it will be given to us, He could not be a perfect example for us.” (Ibid)

< CUT

< CUT

Again with reference to the temptation Ellen White wrote

“This specious reasoning was a temptation to Christ. His humanity made it a temptation to Him, and it was only by trusting his Father's word that He could resist the power of the enemy.” (Ellen G. White ‘The Bible Echo’ 15th November 1892 ‘Tempted in All Points Like as Were Are’)

From where was the temptation coming? It was coming to Him through His human nature. Christ was living through that nature, not through His divinity. He was living through His humanity, a humanity that had been weakened by 4000 years of sin.

Ellen White then said

“He walked by faith, as we must walk by faith, and turned from the artful deceiver, who feigned to doubt his divinity.” (Ibid)

In 1894 Ellen White wrote

“Let children bear in mind that the child Jesus had taken upon himself human nature, and was in the likeness of sinful flesh, and was tempted of Satan as all children are tempted. He was able to resist the temptations of Satan through his dependence upon the divine power of his heavenly Father, as he was subject to his will, and obedient to all his commands.”(Ellen G. White, Youth’s Instructor, August 23rd 1894, ‘Privileges of Childhood’)

Five years later she said to the youth

“When we are tempted to question whether Christ resisted temptation as a man, we must search the Scriptures for the truth. As the substitute and surety of the human race, Christ was placed in the same position toward the Father as is the sinner. Christ had the privilege of depending on the Father for strength, and so have we. Because he laid hold of the hand of infinite power, and held it fast, he overcame; and we are taught to do the same.” (Ellen G. White, Youth’s Instructor 28th December 1899, ‘Tempted in all points like as we are, part II)

She added

“The language of Christ on many occasions shows that he was placed in the same position that we are. He had to walk by faith, as we walk by faith; and when temptations came to him with overwhelming power, he used the language that every child of earth must use. "The Son can do nothing of himself," Christ declared, "but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." "When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things." (Ibid)

<CUT

<CUT

Ellen White said when writing from Australia to her niece

“The Son of God lived a perfect life of obedience in this world. We need always to keep in view the truthfulness of the humanity of Christ Jesus.” (Ellen G. White, Letter to Mary Watson, July 9, 1896, from "Sunnyside," Cooranbong, N.S.W, Manuscript Volume 14, MR No. 1130)

She then added

“When Christ became our substitute and surety, it was as a human being. He came as a man, and rendered the obedience of human nature to the only true God. He came not to show us what God could do, but what God did do, and what man, a partaker of the divine nature, can do.” (Ibid)

She then said

“It was the human nature of Christ that endured the temptations in the wilderness, not His divine nature. In His human nature He endured the contradiction of sinners against Himself. He lived a perfect human life. Jesus is everything to us, and He says to us, "Without Me ye can do nothing." (Ibid)

<CUT

<CUT

“He had infinite power only because He was perfectly obedient to His Father's will.” (Ellen G. White, Manuscript 99, 1903, pp. 3, 4. "Christian Education in Our Schools", September 1, 1903, see also Selected Messages book 3, page 141, chapter 19, ‘The incarnation’)

<CUT

<CUT

With reference to the sin of presumption, Ellen White wrote in 1877

“There are many who fail to distinguish between the rashness of presumption and the intelligent confidence of faith. Satan thought that by his temptations he could delude the world's Redeemer, to make one bold move in manifesting his divine power, to create a sensation, and to surprise all by the wonderful display of the power of his Father in preserving him from injury.” (Ellen G. White, Review & Herald. 1st April 1875, ‘The temptation of Christ’)

She then wrote

“If Christ had been deceived by Satan's temptations, and had exercised his miraculous power to relieve himself from difficulty, he would have broken the contract made with his Father, to be a probationer in behalf of the race.” (Ibid)

Here we come to the crux of the matter. Christ was under contact to God. To save fallen humanity He had accepted the limitations of fallen humanity. This was His lot as our beloved Saviour.

Now note very importantly the next words of Ellen White. She said

“It was a difficult task for the Prince of Life to carry out the plan which he had undertaken for the salvation of man, in clothing his divinity with humanity.” (Ibid)

So why was it so difficult? She explains

“He had received honor in the heavenly courts, and was familiar with absolute power. It was as difficult for him to keep the level of humanity as it is for men to rise above the low level of their depraved natures, and be partakers of the divine nature.” (Ibid)

<CUT

It’s a long post I know but I hope some of this helps.

Regards

Terry

Terry, thank you. Excellent. The following research has also helped me understand the human nature of Jesus.


Some say Jesus only took our form and not our fallen nature. But Sister White wrote above that He took both. He not only was made flesh, He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh. "Christ the sinless became sin for man." (GC 540)


Jesus was tempted from within. He felt and realized the strength of the sin that dwells in fallen flesh. The "sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing." (Rom 7:17, 18)


Jesus' fallen flesh was perfectly identical with our own. The only difference is, He never acted out its unholy clamorings, therefore, He never sinned. His character was sinless. “Human nature is ever struggling for expression, ready for contest ....” (MB 15) “The voice and passions [of sinful flesh] must be crucified.” (TSB 98)

Thanks Mountain Man

I was not aware of a couple of those quotes. Very helpful.

Terry

I'd put the emphasis on different words:

As God, Christ could not be tempted any more than He was not tempted from His allegiance in heaven. But as Christ humbled Himself to the nature of man, He could be tempted. He had not taken on Him even the nature of the angels, but humanity, perfectly identical with our own nature, except without the taint of sin. [How was He identical to man?] A human body, a human mind, with all the peculiar properties, He was bone, brain, and muscle. A man of our flesh, He was compassed with the weakness of humanity. The circumstances of His life were of that character that He was exposed to all the inconveniences that belong to men, not in wealth, not in ease, but in poverty and want and humiliation. He breathed the very air man must breathe. He trod our earth as man. He had reason, conscience, memory, will, and affections of the human soul which was united with His divine nature.--16MR 181, 182. {TA 157.1}

Welcome, Terry!