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Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption? [Re: Inga] #95250
02/04/08 10:10 PM
02/04/08 10:10 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Funny


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption? [Re: Darius] #95255
02/05/08 12:56 AM
02/05/08 12:56 AM
I
Inga  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 124
British Columbia, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Darius
Funny

Not.

Reality!

Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption? [Re: fun2believe] #95258
02/05/08 07:06 AM
02/05/08 07:06 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
 Originally Posted By: fun2believe
So asygo, the only "truth" then is the finite number of words in the bible that God spoke? And so we have to measure everything in the world, everything that goes on in our lives, up to those words? There is no other "truth"?

Is that what you think Jesus meant when He said, "Thy Word is truth"?


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption? [Re: asygo] #95260
02/05/08 07:38 AM
02/05/08 07:38 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2He was in the beginning with God.
3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

6Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Jesus is the Word and Jesus is the Truth. God's Truth is a person.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption? [Re: vastergotland] #95264
02/05/08 08:03 AM
02/05/08 08:03 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
 Originally Posted By: västergötland
Jesus is the Word and Jesus is the Truth. God's Truth is a person.

An interesting, and I believe accurate, take. Exactly what I had in mind. Let's see what fun2believe thinks of it.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption? [Re: asygo] #95270
02/05/08 02:41 PM
02/05/08 02:41 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
And God's Word is a person.


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption? [Re: Darius] #95293
02/05/08 11:16 PM
02/05/08 11:16 PM
I
Inga  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 124
British Columbia, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Darius
And God's Word is a person.

Agreed.

And that Person said, "The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life." And that brings us back to the written words as an objective standard of truth.

Is it possible that when we reject the clear reading of the written words because they do not match our reality we actually reject the Truth/Word/Person of Jesus Christ in favor of our own judgment? (Kinda like having another god ...?)

Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption? [Re: Inga] #95295
02/05/08 11:43 PM
02/05/08 11:43 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
Is it possible that when we reject the clear reading of the written words because they do not match our reality we actually reject the Truth/Word/Person of Jesus Christ in favor of our own judgment?


"Clear reading of the written words" is pretty subjective, isn't it? I can see you rejecting the clear reading of the written words, but not me. Isn't that how everybody see it?

That is, when you believe something I disagree with, it's because you are rejecting the clear reading of the written words. However, when I believe something you disagree with, it's because you are not understanding what the written words really mean.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption? [Re: Tom] #95299
02/06/08 12:33 AM
02/06/08 12:33 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
This also comes to mind:

 Quote:
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. (John 5:39, 40)


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption? [Re: Tom] #95300
02/06/08 01:12 AM
02/06/08 01:12 AM
I
Inga  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 124
British Columbia, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Tom Ewall
 Quote:
Is it possible that when we reject the clear reading of the written words because they do not match our reality we actually reject the Truth/Word/Person of Jesus Christ in favor of our own judgment?


"Clear reading of the written words" is pretty subjective, isn't it?

Not necessarily.

The "clear reading" is the meaning most reasonably intelligent people would get out of the words without resorting to convoluted arguments.

Example: The Bible has some pretty clear things to say about sex outside of marriage, including same-gender sex. It refers to such homosexual sex a number of time, but never favorably. By contrast, the "marriage bed" of heterosexual marriage is pronounced "undefiled."

If you were a gay Christian activist, you would tell me that my reading is "subjective," because the Bible is really only forbidding same-gender sex for heterosexual persons (because it's "unnatural" for them) and it's forbidding sex with temple prostitutes. In case you're not familiar with this reading of the relevant texts, this reading is well "supported" by the original Greek and Hebrew on many web sites.

However, most people reading the prohibitions of a man lying with a man and women engaging in "unnatural" relations would read these as a straightforward prohibition against homosexual sex.

And that's what I mean when I write of the "clear reading of the written words."

Prophecy is quite another matter, of course, because, by its very nature, there is no "clear reading" but a purposeful hiding of the meaning which can be discerned by the "initiated" -- those led by the Spirit of God to study "line upon line, precept upon precept."

For that matter, i realize that the bottom line is that all spiritual mattes are spirituall discerned.

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