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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: Tom]
#96545
03/08/08 11:34 PM
03/08/08 11:34 PM
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Tom, I know what you mean. Knowing you are perfect and hoping you are perfect are worlds apart. John wrote, "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." It is far better to know you are perfect than to go around wondering and doubting. Knowing is the stuff of faith; doubting is the stuff of disbelief. "Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them."
SC 47, 48
Desires for goodness and holiness are right as far as they go; but if you stop here, they will avail nothing. Many will be lost while hoping and desiring to be Christians. They do not come to the point of yielding the will to God. They do not now choose to be Christians. {SC 47.2}
Through the right exercise of the will, an entire change may be made in your life. By yielding up your will to Christ, you ally yourself with the power that is above all principalities and powers. You will have strength from above to hold you steadfast, and thus through constant surrender to God you will be enabled to live the new life, even the life of faith. {SC 48.1}
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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: Mountain Man]
#96580
03/09/08 09:59 AM
03/09/08 09:59 AM
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Tom, I know what you mean. Knowing you are perfect and hoping you are perfect are worlds apart. John wrote, "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." It is far better to know you are perfect than to go around wondering and doubting. Knowing is the stuff of faith; doubting is the stuff of disbelief. "Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them."
Or we can place our security in God, in believing that God will not fail His promises to us, in believing that God will be faithfull to His covenant. Anyone who set out to place his or her security in knowledge of his or her own perfection will ever wonder and worry wether they have breached perfection since last time they thought it through. Or they will be found to be liars re: 10)If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: vastergotland]
#96588
03/09/08 03:24 PM
03/09/08 03:24 PM
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Active Member 2012
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It is far better to know you are perfect than to go around wondering and doubting. Knowing is the stuff of faith; doubting is the stuff of disbelief. This about knocked me off my chair. Before I comment, would you explain what you mean here?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: Tom]
#96591
03/09/08 04:03 PM
03/09/08 04:03 PM
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Thomas, no one on earth can "say that we have not sinned". Why? Because "all have sinned." Even if we never sin again, all have sinned in the past, and this will always be true. "For as ye in times past have not believed God.... For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." (Rom 11:30, 32) "Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." (Eph 2:3) John's point in 1 John is not that born again believers continue to sin and fall short of the glory of God. He is simply saying that anyone who says they have never sinned is deceived and are in essence calling God a liar, who said, All have sinned. He was addressing the Gnostic notion that sin is of the flesh, not of the spirit, therefore, since we are spiritual beings, we have never sinned. John clearly believed that "in Christ" we do not and cannot commit a known sin. We know when we are in Christ; and we know when we are not in Christ. We are not left to wonder and doubt. "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God." (Rom 8:16) Here is how John explains it: 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [then] have we confidence toward God.
3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.
5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: Tom]
#96592
03/09/08 04:11 PM
03/09/08 04:11 PM
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It is far better to know you are perfect than to go around wondering and doubting. Knowing is the stuff of faith; doubting is the stuff of disbelief. This about knocked me off my chair. Before I comment, would you explain what you mean here? Tom, please read the quotes I posted above (addressed to Thomas). Notice how John uses the word "know". Born again believers, who are actively and aggressively walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, "know" they are being like Jesus. We call it the "blessed assurance". Such knowledge is, of course, of heavenly origin. It does not mean, however, that they have no room to grow in grace, to mature in the fruits of the Spirit. In the same way Jesus grew in grace and matured in the fruits of the Spirit, so too, in Christ, born again believers, who are actively and aggressively walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, grow and mature. Eternity isn't long enough to exhaust our potential to become more like Jesus. This is only true while they are abiding in Jesus, while they are actively and aggressively walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man. If they fail to abide in Jesus, then they are no longer imitating His example, they are no longer growing in grace or maturing in the fruits of the Spirit. In order to resume where they left off, they must receive the gift of repentance, which empowers them to confess and forsake their sin, which, in turn, gives God the legal right to restore the relationship their sin severed. And then they begin where they left off - imitating the example of Jesus.
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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: Mountain Man]
#96594
03/09/08 04:45 PM
03/09/08 04:45 PM
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It is far better to know you are perfect than to go around wondering and doubting. Knowing is the stuff of faith; doubting is the stuff of disbelief. MM, you kind of skated around what I was asking about. You appear to be stating in the above that you know you are perfect. Is this really what you meant to say?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: Tom]
#96610
03/09/08 07:26 PM
03/09/08 07:26 PM
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I attempted to qualify what it means. How do you understand the passages I posted above?
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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: Mountain Man]
#96614
03/09/08 08:22 PM
03/09/08 08:22 PM
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Active Member 2011
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Posts: 3,965
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The quotes from first John sertainly are part of the story John is telling in his letter, but they are by no means the complete story.
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: vastergotland]
#96624
03/09/08 09:33 PM
03/09/08 09:33 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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It is far better to know you are perfect than to go around wondering and doubting. Knowing is the stuff of faith; doubting is the stuff of disbelief. MM, you're qualification didn't make sense to me. In this statement you appear to be saying that you know that you are perfect. Is this what you really mean to say? Let me ask my question this way. Do you know that you are perfect? Regarding what the 1 John passage means, it means that it is not characteristic of a child of God to sin. Earlier in his epistle he writes: If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.(1 John 1:8) What he says later in the epistle cannot be made to contradict what he says elsewhere. In 1 John 2 he writes: 1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: He writes to us that we "sin not," but makes provision that *if* (not "when," but "if) anyone sins, we have an advocate. John's presentation seems to me to be quite balanced.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Can sinning be overcome....
[Re: Tom]
#96630
03/10/08 12:34 AM
03/10/08 12:34 AM
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TE: Let me ask my question this way. Do you know that you are perfect?
MM: Is it kind to ask this question? Would it be wise to answer it? The promises speak for themselves, don't they? Of himself, Paul, perhaps under inspiration, wrote:
2 Timothy
4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished [my] course, I have kept the faith:
4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
---
TE: Regarding what the 1 John passage means, it means that it is not characteristic of a child of God to sin. Earlier in his epistle he writes: If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.(1 John 1:8) What he says later in the epistle cannot be made to contradict what he says elsewhere.
MM: He qualifies what he means by "no sin" in the larger context (verses 5-10). "No sin" is referring to past sins, not present or future sins. If we 1) confess our sins, He is faithful to 2) forgive and to 3) cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Then He empowers us to walk in the light as He is in the light. We have fellowship with Him. It cannot mean we will sin occasionally.
1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
---
TE: He writes to us that we "sin not," but makes provision that *if* (not "when," but "if) anyone sins, we have an advocate.
MM: Amen!
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