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Re: "We Have No Sin"
[Re: vastergotland]
#97951
04/08/08 07:48 PM
04/08/08 07:48 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Thomas, I guess it is wishful thinking to expect you to answer my questions directly. You have already made it clear you do not think Sabbath-keeping and knowing the truth about soul-sleep is necessary to be translated alive when Jesus returns. From this I can conclude neither of these two truths are, from your perspective, included in the Gospel Commission - "Teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you." Which is fine. That's all I was trying to find out - what you believe about it. Now I know. Thank you for sharing your point of view.
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Re: "We Have No Sin"
[Re: Mountain Man]
#97954
04/08/08 08:09 PM
04/08/08 08:09 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Thomas, I guess it is wishful thinking to expect you to answer my questions directly. You have already made it clear you do not think Sabbath-keeping and knowing the truth about soul-sleep is necessary to be translated alive when Jesus returns. From this I can conclude neither of these two truths are, from your perspective, included in the Gospel Commission - "Teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you." Which is fine. That's all I was trying to find out - what you believe about it. Now I know. Thank you for sharing your point of view. I think you are asking the wrong questions, questions which appear founded in the false idea that my or yours salvation is somehow built on what I or you do or believe about it. That complete knowledge is somehow part of complete salvation. Instead, salvation is based upon what Jesus has done for each of us and all any could do in responce is to accept it. Try any other reply and you are doing to much. What is important for translation wether in ressurection or otherwise is knowing Jesus Christ. Sabbathkeeping will not save you, knowing Jesus will. Right knowledge about the human soul will not save you, knowing Jesus will. Right knowledge about translation will not save you, knowing Jesus will. It is possible that knowing Jesus will in turn bring with it these three other issues, but none of them are in the slightest way primary. This kind of scrutiny on sabbath or soulsleap is like so intensely studying one pair of pine needles that one entierly misses the mighty 150 feet pine tree they grow on. Or like studying one tree on the forest edge so intently that one is compleately oblivious to the fact that the tree belonged to a forest.
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: "We Have No Sin"
[Re: vastergotland]
#97963
04/09/08 12:07 AM
04/09/08 12:07 AM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Again, Thomas, thank you for confirming what you believe about the relationship between knowing Jesus and doctrine and obedience. Jesus said, "The truth shall make you free... If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death." Words to live by.
John
8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed;
8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever.
8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
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Re: "We Have No Sin"
[Re: vastergotland]
#97966
04/09/08 01:49 AM
04/09/08 01:49 AM
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OP
SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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This kind of scrutiny on sabbath or soulsleap is like so intensely studying one pair of pine needles that one entierly misses the mighty 150 feet pine tree they grow on. While focusing on the needles might lead one to miss the tree, knowing the tree in all its beauty will also inform one of the needles. In the same way, while focusing on doctrines might lead one to miss Jesus, knowing Jesus in all His beauty will also inform one regarding His doctrines.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: "We Have No Sin"
[Re: vastergotland]
#97967
04/09/08 01:58 AM
04/09/08 01:58 AM
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OP
SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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Instead, salvation is based upon what Jesus has done for each of us and all any could do in responce is to accept it. Try any other reply and you are doing to much. It is true that salvation is firmly founded on what Jesus has done for us. However, accepting His work is not the only acceptable response. Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
John 15:8
By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples. Yes, Jesus did much for us, because He loves us. Now, we are elected to do much for Him, because we love Him. But we work, not for what we will get, but for what we already got. We love Him because He first loved us.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: "We Have No Sin"
[Re: vastergotland]
#97968
04/09/08 02:08 AM
04/09/08 02:08 AM
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OP
SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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Christ crucified for our sins, Christ risen from the dead, Christ ascended on high, is the science of salvation that we are to learn and to teach. {8T 287.2} Nice find. Here's a similar one, with a couple of details added: These are our themes--Christ crucified for our sins, Christ risen from the dead, Christ our intercessor before God; and closely connected with these is the office work of the Holy Spirit, the representative of Christ, sent forth with divine power and gifts for men.--Letter 86, 1895. {Ev 187.1}
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: "We Have No Sin"
[Re: asygo]
#97973
04/09/08 03:38 AM
04/09/08 03:38 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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It is true that salvation is firmly founded on what Jesus has done for us. However, accepting His work is not the only acceptable response. I agree with this, but wonder if this is understood to mean simply that Jesus kept the law or died on the cross, as opposed to understand that Jesus Christ revealed God to us, which is what we so dearly needed. Those who would behold this glory would be drawn to love Jesus and to love the Father whom he represented. Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. In Christ was arrayed before men the paternal grace and the matchless perfections of the Father. In his prayer just before his crucifixion, he declared, "I have manifested thy name." "I have glorified thee on the earth; I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do." When the object of his mission was attained,--the revelation of God to the world,--the Son of God announced that his work was accomplished, and that the character of the Father was made manifest to men. (ST 1/20/90) John expresses the same thought succinctly: No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like. (John 1:18)
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: "We Have No Sin"
[Re: asygo]
#97976
04/09/08 06:43 AM
04/09/08 06:43 AM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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This kind of scrutiny on sabbath or soulsleap is like so intensely studying one pair of pine needles that one entierly misses the mighty 150 feet pine tree they grow on. While focusing on the needles might lead one to miss the tree, knowing the tree in all its beauty will also inform one of the needles. In the same way, while focusing on doctrines might lead one to miss Jesus, knowing Jesus in all His beauty will also inform one regarding His doctrines. Exactly.
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: "We Have No Sin"
[Re: asygo]
#97977
04/09/08 06:46 AM
04/09/08 06:46 AM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Instead, salvation is based upon what Jesus has done for each of us and all any could do in responce is to accept it. Try any other reply and you are doing to much. It is true that salvation is firmly founded on what Jesus has done for us. However, accepting His work is not the only acceptable response. Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
John 15:8
By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples. Yes, Jesus did much for us, because He loves us. Now, we are elected to do much for Him, because we love Him. But we work, not for what we will get, but for what we already got. We love Him because He first loved us. The obedience of a diciple would apply to those who have first been introduced to and called by the Master?
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: "We Have No Sin"
[Re: vastergotland]
#97982
04/09/08 08:10 AM
04/09/08 08:10 AM
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OP
SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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True obedience can only be rendered by one who fully loves God, for that is the first and greatest commandment.
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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