My thoughts are also that some manipulation could be going on.

Hey fun2believe,

Nice to see you back on the forum.

MM:Does God expect us to work free for the church or for His causes? Or, does He promise the laborer is worthy of his hire?

F2B:He does indeed promise a just reward, and you will get it when you meet up with Him!

I think all injustices should be brought to light, if that is infact what they are. You can't make something right if you dont' know it's wrong.

F2B, thanx for answering my question. In some cases, payment for what we do for the church will be received in heaven. But in Skylynx's case, he should be paid for the print work while here on earth. He needs the money.

But how do we KNOW he needs the money? I'm not saying he's making that up, but what if this is the work of the Lord? What if this is a trial, something God is teaching? Is it right for US to decide what is right, or is it up to God to decide? What if God does not want him to have the reward now, but later in heaven? Personally I think he should be paid for work done as well, but I'm sure I don't have all the answers to others questions, I'm just human.

And in general, when should we listen to man, and when should we take the advice of God over man?

F2B: And in general, when should we listen to man, and when should we take the advice of God over man?

MM: When we know the difference, right? Sometimes they coincide and sometimes they conflict. When they conflict, and we're sure about it, we must adhere to God's counsel and advice. Otherwise, we should probably hold our peace. Silence is golden when words are worthless and worldly.

Yeah, but how do we know the difference? Is there anything to use as a gauge? What if they conflict for me, but not my pastor? Or what if most people agree, but others don't?

What if we take the advice of someone we respect, and feel is correct, but learn later that they were wrong, or have done some very serious offenses against God?

I love to look to those older and wiser than myself, but how do I know when to listen to them or God?

Yeah, but how do we know the difference? Is there anything to use as a gauge? What if they conflict for me, but not my pastor? Or what if most people agree, but others don't?

What if we take the advice of someone we respect, and feel is correct, but learn later that they were wrong, or have done some very serious offenses against God?

I love to look to those older and wiser than myself, but how do I know when to listen to them or God?

You are a professional printer, they must pay you a agreed upon amount. At that point you can give the profit back as offering or a 10% for tithe or more as you decide in you heart. Whether you make a profit or loss is none of their concern.


Church members/pastors can be hustlers as well as outright con artists trying to get a better price or deal out of other church member. It is dishonest, unchristian, and in some cases rises to the level of robbing a person of their money or panhandling.

Dont let them shame you, con you or force you to give one penny that you do not decide on your own. It is wrong for the pastor try to force more money out of his members from the pulpit, and it is wrong for him or a deacon, elder, or member to try to force money out of another member in business, at home, or in the street.Anyone that tries to do that should get just a nice "Thanks for asking, but no".

Now if they ask upfront at the start in a honest and loving manner with sincerity and you feel impressed to give, that is another matter, and you must decide as the Spirit moves your heart...


Just in case they arent clear on the concept of a offering or tithe, be prepared to enlighthen them.....

Main Entry: of·fer·ing
Pronunciation: \ˈȯ-f(ə-)riŋ, ˈä-\
Function: noun
Date: before 12th century
1 a: the act of one who offers b: something offered; especially : a sacrifice ceremonially offered as a part of worship c: a contribution to the support of a church
2: something offered for sale or patronage <latest offerings of the leading novelists>
3: a course of instruction or study

Main Entry: 1tithe
Pronunciation: \ˈtīth\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): tithed; tith·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English teogothian, from teogotha tenth
Date: before 12th century
transitive verb
1 : to pay or give a tenth part of especially for the support of the church
2 : to levy a tithe on
intransitive verb
: to give a tenth of one's income as a tithe

If they need scripture, begin with the following...


15 "You shall not steal.

16 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard
1"For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard. 2He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
3"About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4He told them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.' 5So they went.

"He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing. 6About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, 'Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?'

7" 'Because no one has hired us,' they answered.
"He said to them, 'You also go and work in my vineyard.'

8"When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.'

9"The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. 10So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12'These men who were hired last worked only one hour,' they said, 'and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.'

13"But he answered one of them, 'Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? 14Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?'


Never should a member be coerced out of his agreed upon wages........