Richard, sanctification retains the blessings of justification. Justification occurs the moment we completely surrender our souls to Jesus' care and keeping. No one is justified who refuses to confess and crucify the character defects the Holy Spirit reveals to them during the process that leads to rebirth.

The question is - Will Jesus change our character when He returns? Or, will there be time and grace to confess and crucify unconquered character defects in heaven?

Here's a question that came to mind. The following is assumed.

1.Because our prayers pass through the corrupt channels of humanity, the intercession of Christ is required.

2.At some point (e.g., the close of probation), Christ ceases His work of intercession).

3.Therefore there are people (i.e. the 144,000) who stand before God without a mediator.


The question is, did those who go to heaven need an Intercessor just before they died? If so, why?

A.We can rule out that the "corrupt channels of humanity" refers to our flesh, because if this were the case, the 144,000 could not stand before God without a mediator, since their flesh is not changed.

B.Given that the character does not change at death, it could not be the character which necessitates intercession, since just before death it is the same as it is in heaven.

So why is Christ's intercession necessary for the righteous, a short time before they die?

SC 29
One ray of the glory of God, one gleam of the purity of Christ, penetrating the soul, makes every spot of defilement painfully distinct, and lays bare the deformity and defects of the human character. It makes apparent the unhallowed desires, the infidelity of the heart, the impurity of the lips. The sinner's acts of disloyalty in making void the law of God, are exposed to his sight, and his spirit is stricken and afflicted under the searching influence of the Spirit of God. He loathes himself as he views the pure, spotless character of Christ. {SC 29.1}

Questions:

1. Which character defect is not included in this statement?

2. Which character defect does the Holy Spirit wait to reveal until years after a person experiences the miracle of rebirth?

3. Which character defect remains to be changed when Jesus returns and resurrects people?

Any character defects not made known.



How many years? Why do you say "years"?



Before Jesus comes again, He stops His work as intercessor. So how could there be any character defects remaining to be changed?

What's your response to my question in post #98588?

What? She said, "One ray of the glory of God, one gleam of the purity of Christ, penetrating the soul, makes every spot of defilement painfully distinct, and lays bare the deformity and defects of the human character." She doesn't leave room for your answer, does she?


Let's assume Sister White is wrong. Let's say one ray of the glory of God, one gleam of the purity of Christ, penetrating the soul, does not make every spot of defilement painfully distinct, and does not lay bare every deformity and defect of the human character. What is an example of a sinful habit the Holy Spirit waits to reveal until one day after they are born again, and what are examples of sinful habits He waits until one week, one month, and one year afterwards to reveal?


Does this apply only to the translated saints? Or, does it also apply to the resurrected saints? Will Jesus change their uncrucified defective traits of character when He resurrects them? For example, does the thief on the cross have uncrucified defective traits of character that need to be changed when Jesus resurrects him?

Yes, she does. This is similar to the Romans 1 passage where Paul said that "everything" that could be known of God was revealed to them. Yet clearly one does not know of the Sabbath by nature. So the "everything" obviously means everything which God reveals. It's similar here. We could not possibly bear to have all of our sins revealed at once. There's far too many of them. It would be the end of us. God knows our frame, that we are but dust.

The context is speaking of the Holy Spirit's revealing the one's need for Christ by way of revealing one's sinfulness. One's need is made clear by the Holy Spirit. No possible excuse is left uncovered.

Regarding the second question, let's not assume EGW is wrong.

3. Which character defect remains to be changed when Jesus returns and resurrects people?



Before the close of probation, Jesus intercedes for untranslated saints, so this question applies to the 144,000.



This looks like another way of asking the questions I was asking.

Tom, in the following passage Sister White observed that the moment one ray of the glory of God, one gleam of the purity of Christ, penetrates the soul and makes every spot of defilement plain to sinners that it causes them a lot of pain. When every spot of defilement is exposed to their sight, the spirit is stricken and afflicted under the searching influence of the Spirit of God. They loathe themselves as they view the pure, spotless character of Christ.

Does this sound to you like something Jesus would do? I thought you told me the Holy Spirit is too kind and merciful to reveal all of their sinful habits at once, that He exposes their sinful habits slowly so as not to cause them undue pain and agony. If so, why does she say they become aware of "every spot of defilement" and that it causes them to feel stricken and smitten and painful?

SC 29
One ray of the glory of God, one gleam of the purity of Christ, penetrating the soul, makes every spot of defilement painfully distinct, and lays bare the deformity and defects of the human character. It makes apparent the unhallowed desires, the infidelity of the heart, the impurity of the lips. The sinner's acts of disloyalty in making void the law of God, are exposed to his sight, and his spirit is stricken and afflicted under the searching influence of the Spirit of God. He loathes himself as he views the pure, spotless character of Christ. {SC 29.1}

Tom, if you're going to interpret what she wrote in this way you'll have to provide quotes to prove your point. Where does she say explain what she meant the way you have here? Based on what you've said, the phrase "every spot of defilement [and] deformity and defects of the human character" can mean one sinful habit to the exclusion of dozens of others. Where does she say such a thing? Why didn't she say it in the context of SC?


Your interpretation begs the question. So, let's say one ray of the glory of God, one gleam of the purity of Christ, penetrating the soul, does not make every spot of defilement they possess painfully distinct, and does not lay bare every deformity and defect of character they have cultivated.

Let's say it only includes the ones the Holy Spirit chooses to reveal. With this idea in mind, what is an example of a sinful habit the Holy Spirit waits to reveal until one day after they are born again, and what are examples of sinful habits He waits until one week, one month, and one year afterwards to reveal?


Okay, but my question was about resurrected saints, right? So, again, what kind of cultivated defective traits of character can the Holy Spirit leave unrevealed and uncrucified until after a born again person is resurrected?


I believe the answers to the two questions above is, No. What do you believe?

Here's the question:


I agree with A and B. Jesus intercedes on our behalf for many reasons. I do not know all of them. One reason is to hold in check the four winds of the earth until the 144,000 are numbered and sealed. Another reason is to apply the benefits of His blood when we sin and require repentance and forgiveness and reconciliation. Another reason is to make our prayers and praise acceptable and pleasing to God. Certain aspects of His intercession will cease when probation closes, but not all of them.

My question is regarding this aspect. Why is this necessary? EGW writes it's because the prayers pass through the "corrupt channels" of humanity. But what corrupts these channels? It can't be our flesh, because then the 144,000 could not stand before God without a Mediator. It seems like it must have to do with our character. But if the character doesn't change when one dies, then can those who are about to die and go to heaven (i.e., their characters are in harmony with heaven) pray without Christ's having to intercede for them? If not, why not?