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Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: Tom] #99362
05/15/08 05:25 PM
05/15/08 05:25 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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It is the unregenerate heart that sees the law as nothing but a bunch of prohibitions. The converted heart views it as an expression of God's loving will and character.

"When we speak of faith, there is a distinction that should be borne in mind. There is a kind of belief that is wholly distinct from faith. The existence and power of God, the truth of His Word, are facts that even Satan and his hosts cannot at heart deny. The Bible says that "the devils also believe, and tremble"; but this is not faith. Where there is not only a belief in God's Word, but a submission of the will to Him; where the heart is yielded to Him, the affections fixed upon Him, there is faith--faith that works by love and purifies the soul. Through this faith the heart is renewed in the image of God. And the heart that in its unrenewed state is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be, now delights in its holy precepts, exclaiming with the psalmist, "O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day." Ps. 119:97. And the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Rom. 8:1. {FLB 90.4}

Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: Mountain Man] #99371
05/15/08 07:02 PM
05/15/08 07:02 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Further down in the same book Ellen writes:

 Quote:
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Rom. 3:31. {FLB 93.1}

Faith is not an opiate, but a stimulant. Looking to Calvary will not quiet your soul into nonperformance of duty, but will create faith that will work, purifying the soul from all selfishness. {FLB 93.2}

The faith in Christ which saves the soul is not what it is represented to be by many. "Believe, believe," is their cry; "only believe in Christ, and you will be saved. It is all you have to do." While true faith trusts wholly in Christ for salvation, it will lead to perfect conformity to the law of God. {FLB 93.3}

There are two errors against which the children of God--particularly those who have just come to trust in His grace--especially need to guard. The first . . . is that of looking to their own works, trusting to anything they can do, to bring themselves into harmony with God. He who is trying to become holy by his own works in keeping the law, is attempting an impossibility. . . . It is the grace of Christ alone, through faith, that can make us holy. {FLB 93.4}

The opposite and no less dangerous error is that belief in Christ releases men from keeping the law of God; that since by faith alone we become partakers of the grace of Christ, our works have nothing to do with our redemption. {FLB 93.5}

But notice here that obedience is not a mere outward compliance, but the service of love. The law of God is an expression of His very nature; it is an embodiment of the great principle of love, and hence is the foundation of His government in heaven and earth. . . . Instead of releasing man from obedience, it is faith, and faith only, that makes us partakers of the grace of Christ, which enables us to render obedience. {FLB 93.6}


As Jesus was in human nature, so God means His followers to be. In His strength we are to live the life of purity and nobility which the Saviour lived.
94
{FLB 93.7}
Notice also the third chapter of COL. It speaks on the same topic. Interestingly enough, these are the same thoughts I recently read in Bonhoeffers book. I expect B has not read Ellen but that both found the same in the source.

Last edited by asygo; 06/27/08 02:47 AM. Reason: fixed formatting
Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: Tom] #99484
05/19/08 01:52 AM
05/19/08 01:52 AM
asygo  Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Tom Ewall
Also, the law could describe what right living looks like, but doesn't describe how God treats those who choose the wrong path; IOW the mercy, compassion, patience, kindness, and gentleness (to name a few things) of God are not described. Thus the law does not reveal all aspects of the character of God, including the very ones we need to know most when we stray from the law of life. I.e., it provides no way to restore one who has strayed to the wrong path to get back on the right one.

I agree. The law describes righteousness, showing us what sin is by contrast, but it doesn't give detailed instructions on how to go from sin to righteousness, from death to life. Good thing God didn't end His revelation of Himself at Sinai.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: asygo] #99485
05/19/08 01:01 PM
05/19/08 01:01 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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A: Good thing God didn't end His revelation of Himself at Sinai.

MM: Too bad for those who lived before Sinai, right? Or, was God's revelation of Himself sufficient for Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac?

Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: Mountain Man] #99495
05/19/08 10:16 PM
05/19/08 10:16 PM
Tom  Offline
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Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Not just the law was revealed at Sinai.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: Mountain Man] #99727
05/29/08 04:21 AM
05/29/08 04:21 AM
asygo  Offline
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California, USA
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
A: Good thing God didn't end His revelation of Himself at Sinai.

MM: Too bad for those who lived before Sinai, right? Or, was God's revelation of Himself sufficient for Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac?

God's revelation to those guys was sufficient, but not complete. In fact, God will continue to reveal Himself more and more throughout eternity. It will be a never-ending project.

So, a better statement is this: Too bad for those who do not live eternally.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: asygo] #99747
05/31/08 02:57 PM
05/31/08 02:57 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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"Sufficient, but not complete." If it was sufficient before Sinai, then what can we say about it after Sinai? What more did God need to reveal? Since it will never be "complete" at what point was it sufficient?

Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: Mountain Man] #99765
06/02/08 03:50 PM
06/02/08 03:50 PM
asygo  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
"Sufficient, but not complete." If it was sufficient before Sinai, then what can we say about it after Sinai?

"Still sufficient, and more complete."

 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
What more did God need to reveal?

Since it was already sufficient, God didn't "need" to reveal more. However, there was a lot more, as evidenced by the new light revealed since Sinai until today. That sinful man was given another probation, unlike Lucifer, testifies to the fact that we did not know all there was to know.

 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Since it will never be "complete" at what point was it sufficient?

It was sufficient when Adam opened his eyes and found his Creator there - this is eternal life: to know God. But God's light continues to shine brighter and brighter as we get to know Him more.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: asygo] #99776
06/03/08 01:47 AM
06/03/08 01:47 AM
Tom  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
MM, Jesus Christ revealed the truth about God. He resolved the Great Controversy by His revelation. Until Christ came, it was not clear to unfallen beings and holy angels that Satan was in the wrong.

In regards to human beings, we have the following:

 Quote:
Sin originated in self-seeking. Lucifer, the covering cherub, desired to be first in heaven. He sought to gain control of heavenly beings, to draw them away from their Creator, and to win their homage to himself. Therefore he misrepresented God,
Page 22
attributing to Him the desire for self-exaltation. With his own evil characteristics he sought to invest the loving Creator. Thus he deceived angels. Thus he deceived men. He led them to doubt the word of God, and to distrust His goodness. Because God is a God of justice and terrible majesty, Satan caused them to look upon Him as severe and unforgiving. Thus he drew men to join him in rebellion against God, and the night of woe settled down upon the world.

The earth was dark through misapprehension of God. That the gloomy shadows might be lightened, that the world might be brought back to God, Satan's deceptive power was to be broken. This could not be done by force. The exercise of force is contrary to the principles of God's government; He desires only the service of love; and love cannot be commanded; it cannot be won by force or authority. Only by love is love awakened. To know God is to love Him; His character must be manifested in contrast to the character of Satan. This work only one Being in all the universe could do. Only He who knew the height and depth of the love of God could make it known. Upon the world's dark night the Sun of Righteousness must rise, "with healing in His wings." Mal. 4:2. (DA 21, 22)


From Scripture, the writings of John and Paul, in particular, develop this theme. John tells us that no one has seen God, but His only Son, who knew Him best, has shown us what God is really like. John tells us of Jesus' saying "When you've seen Me, you've seen the Father."

This revelation was necessary for man, unfallen worlds, and holy angels.

Another DA quote regarding man:

 Quote:
(M)an was deceived; his mind was darkened by Satan's sophistry. The height and depth of the love of God he did not know. For him there was hope in a knowledge of God's love. By beholding His character he might be drawn back to God. (DA 762)


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Can the Law save us? [Re: Tom] #99955
06/14/08 11:52 PM
06/14/08 11:52 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
TE: This revelation was necessary for man, unfallen worlds, and holy angels.

MM: But people like Enoch and Moses and Elijah made it to heaven before this revelation. Holy angels were content to serve God before this revelation.

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